12 minutes ago, Chock said:

I've driven brand new Beemers and Mercs which could only go 70 miles on a full charge, these were not old, cheap cars.

 

Like what? BMW you say, so i3 city car. Name the cars. If they could only do 70 miles on a full charge and they were sizable cars with big batteries then a trip to your nearest EV mechanic was in order.

2 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

Like what? BMW you say, so i3 city car. Name the cars. If they could only do 70 miles on a full charge and they were sizable cars with big batteries then a trip to your nearest EV mechanic was in order.

All sorts really, 3, 5 and 7 series BMWs, including M sport versions, same for the Mercs, lots of high end versions including some AMG models. That was when I was delivering lease cars after I lost my job in aviation, so these were not some old clunkers, in many cases they were literally brand new. You don't have to believe me if you don't want to, but it is true.

7 minutes ago, Chock said:

All sorts really, 3, 5 and 7 series BMWs, including M sport versions, 

 

Huh... there are no 3, 5, and 7 series electric BMW's. 

The electric version of the 5 series won't be available untill 2025.

The 7 series all electric arrives late 2021.

What on Earth are you on about. 😆 

Edited December 16, 20205 yr by martin-w

1 minute ago, martin-w said:

 

Huh... there are no 3, 5, and 7 series electric BMW's. 

Yes there are, they are hybrids. Not strictly all-electric it is true, but they still use batteries.

Edited December 16, 20205 yr by Chock

😆 😆 

We are talking about EV'S not hybrids. OF COURSE A hybrid will only do 70 miles just on its battery. Its a hybrid, it has a miniscule battery. The battery is just a range extender. They have petrol engines.

The entire thread here is about EV's not hybrids. 😆 

An EV is an all electric vehicle. Not a hybrid which is electric and IC engine. They are two entirely diferent beasts. 

Edited December 16, 20205 yr by martin-w

I have owned a 2019 Tesla Model 3 AWD since January, 2019, and at 90% charge (the maximum that I charge on a daily basis), I have a rated range of 446 km. I live on the west coast of Canada, in Surrey (near Vancouver), Canada, and we do get some cold weather. For example, it's 8 degrees Celsius today. Cold weather does affect battery capacity, so when it's really cold, my Tesla does experience some loss of capacity ... at a maximum, 20%-25%. Taking that amount of loss into account, the battery still has around 350 km of range.

Regardless ... doesn't matter at all: I have a level 2 charger at home, and I plug my car in every night, in the same way that most people plug in their cell phones. Every morning, I wake up to a full charge, and I have no need to "fill up" during the day: I drive on average 50 km to 60 km per day, and on extreme days, I might drive 150 kms. Still, no need to recharge.

A bonus: the cost of electricity is relatively cheap and clean in BC (most electricity is generated from dams) while the cost of gas is expensive (today it's around $1.29 per litre for regular), so I end up saving lots of money in fuel costs over an ICE car.

Edited December 16, 20205 yr by JRMurray

15 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

No point in an EV though. They don't require a gearbox. Electric motors generate a consistent amount of torque throughout the RPM range. It would be dead weight, a pointless decrease in performance due to increased mass.

For fun though, if you are into changing gear, something we in the UK are so accustomed to we find a chore...  😁 There are are classic car conversions around that  still retain the gearbox.

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/

 

 

 

Therein lies my issue, I enjoy driving cars and the concept of the EV's are all about having them drive you, not fun for me.

The song Red Barchetta by Rush is about that future world where the government bans gasoline engines and you have to hide your classic car, and going for a Sunday Drive takes on a new meaning. The song was based on an November 1973 article in Road and Track magazine predicting that future, and it looks like we are heading that way now all these years later. 

5 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

I'll try again.  Where Is the battery being made?  Which country.? 

Somewhere were they allow the dirty business of mfg. batteries. It is great to drive down the road without pollution. But I am very worried about disposal of batteries since they are really not recyclable. Tesla is a huge money maker firstly, which is something that gives me great concern for the future of the environment. Only my thought and I love Mother Earth.

Aw man I can't believe what they did to that beautiful little Beetle. It reminds me of the movie "One flew over the coocoos nest" giving Jack Nicholson a lobotomy. Guys that hurts. 😰

55 minutes ago, flyingleaf said:

But I am very worried about disposal of batteries since they are really not recyclable.

Hi, @flyingleaf! Hey, we're neighbours! I live quite close to Langley--near Cloverdale. I work for KPU, and until a month ago, my office was on the Langley campus (in the "Before Times," that is).

As for batteries, actually, they are recyclable ... and reusable. See here for an article in Canadian Waste and Recycling Magazine about reuse and recycling, here for a company in Surrey (near Langley) that recovers spent lithium-ion cathode material, and here for an example of an American company that recycles hybrid and EV batteries.

5 hours ago, flyingleaf said:

Somewhere were they allow the dirty business of mfg. batteries. It is great to drive down the road without pollution. But I am very worried about disposal of batteries since they are really not recyclable. Tesla is a huge money maker firstly, which is something that gives me great concern for the future of the environment. Only my thought and I love Mother Earth.

 

Nope. Not true. Recycling EV batteries is a big thing. Tesla batteries are 100% recyclable.

Theres a big market for second life EV batteries too. When they can't power a car anymore they are used for energy storage.

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/automotive-and-assembly/our-insights/second-life-ev-batteries-the-newest-value-pool-in-energy-storage

13 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

I'll try again.  Where Is the battery being made?  Which country.? 

The lithium battery cells for current Toyota batteries are made by Panasonic in Osaka, Japan. Panasonic will also be the supplier for the new battery technology. Toyota has entered into a joint venture agreement with Panasonic and established a new company to do the R&D. Where the new batteries will be manufactured is, as far as I know, still a matter of conjecture but, at least initially, I would think it will also be Osaka. (Panasonic also manufactures all the lithium cells for Tesla in the Osaka plant).

This is ironic in that I just read a recent article in Barrons wherein the head of Toyota questioned and slightly criticized some of the optimistic claims regarding EVs. 

He points out that in order to achieve the stated goals of many countries regarding EVs, for example no gasoline vehicles sold after 2030 or 2035, massive amounts of money will be necessary to build the charging infrastructure, increase utility capacity, produce the batteries(not a "clean" process by the way), etc.  The auto industry itself will also have to invest hundreds of billions of dollars in new manufacturing equipment.

This is all achievable of course and worthwhile IMO, but I'm under no illusions that it will be a good deal for the average person.  It's all fine and good that wealthy politicians, actors, and other elites preach to us that we need to switch to clean energy and stop consuming so much, but the reality is that all this climate-friendly stuff is going to cost a lot of money, and the burden will fall especially hard on the middle class.

I suppose that govt. subsidies can make this clean energy utopia a reality, but don't think for a minute that it's not going to cost you, the average middle class person.  The govt. largess will be paid for with increased taxes or newly created money from the central banks, both of which take money away from each person via direct payments or price inflation. 

A former U.S. President was unusually honest when years ago he stated that under his clean energy plan "utility costs would necessarily skyrocket". 

I believe that transitioning away from fossil fuel power is something that humanity needs to do, but it should be done gradually over several decades, and it should be the multi-millionaires and billionaires who pay the majority of the costs to make the transition, not the middle class which is having a hard enough time getting by as it is.

Dave

 

25 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

This is ironic in that I just read a recent article in Barrons wherein the head of Toyota questioned and slightly criticized some of the optimistic claims regarding EVs. 

 

 

 

Yep, Toyota are famous for that. Many of their claims lack validity. The "self charging hybrid" nonsense was one of their marketing attempts to promote their hybrids and discredit full EV. 

Have you a link to that? I recall it was the article that was debunked. 

 

Quote

A former U.S. President was unusually honest when years ago he stated that under his clean energy plan "utility costs would necessarily skyrocket". 

 

Republican by any chance? One of the guys funded by the oil industry? Legalized bribery seems to be a thing in US politics. 

Edited December 17, 20205 yr by martin-w

39 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Yep, Toyota are famous for that. Many of their claims lack validity.

Ah, OK.  So the article you posted where Toyota claims to be developing a revolutionary solid state battery is also suspect, then.

41 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Republican by any chance? One of the guys funded by the oil industry? Legalized bribery seems to be a thing in US politics.

????

My point was that he was honest about the true costs of a clean energy future.  I doubt that he was funded by the oil industry as his policies aren't exactly good for business.

 

You know, it must be nice to relocate to an offshore tax haven, where big oil companies and banks, among others, set up subsidiaries to avoid paying taxes in their true home countries.  From the comfort of this low tax haven one can preach to the rest of the unwashed masses about the virtues of being a good global citizen by reducing our consumption and paying higher taxes and prices overall to fund the green utopia.  In the meantime, like the big corporations and wealthy elites, one can avoid the high taxation in ones own home country while the taxpayers in that home country pay for ones defense and other govt. services.  One should be asked to put ones money where ones mouth is.

Dave