Interesting perspective.

https://studentpilotnews.com/2020/08/17/flight-simulator-2020-the-next-gen-vfr-trainer/

I am still wary of trainee pilots spending 100s of unsupervised hours in a simulator -  it is a recipe for disaster,

However if your instructor occasionally checks in on what you are doing or even sets you tasks that is a different matter.

This is the first sim where you have been able to reliably fly a visual circuit rather than getting fixated on the Altimeter and obsessing over the DG and runway heading, base heading etc etc .

 

That said there are still FM issues in flare and ground roll that need to be addressed if people are going to use it as a training tool.

Guys, it doesn't matter if you have a million hours in MSFS, you will still need to get in the airplane with an instructor. You will never get an endorsement or pass a practical test without getting in the plane.

Having said that, IMO a sim is only effective after you get your Private Pilot Certificate, because you will then know when you are using it properly for maintaining your proficiency or for reinforcing good habits.

47 minutes ago, DJJose said:

Guys, it doesn't matter if you have a million hours in MSFS, you will still need to get in the airplane with an instructor. You will never get an endorsement or pass a practical test without getting in the plane.

Having said that, IMO a sim is only effective after you get your Private Pilot Certificate, because you will then know when you are using it properly for maintaining your proficiency or for reinforcing good habits.

Indeed.

Now if I were to say I had been playing a horse riding simulator for years on my PC and hence should be able to just get on a horse and ride off, people would laugh, but somehow with aircraft it is another matter.

A couple of thoughts. First, the article points a very real use case for a primary flight student - practicing cross country flight prior to actually flying them. Second, the sim does a good job in depicting reduced weather conditions that a primary student generally does see (until they are in trouble). And finally, second half of the article shows its hand that it is, in fact, a marketing piece designed to sell stuff from Sporty’s Pilot Shop. 

3 hours ago, DJJose said:

Having said that, IMO a sim is only effective after you get your Private Pilot Certificate

When I started my real flight training in late 1992 in Goodyear, Arizona, I certainly had a leg up on most of my classmates initially and was able to pretty much land my F33A on the very first flight I did.

My instructor asked me if I had any previous flight experience, but I only ever had flown on the various PC Flightsimulation programs available then.

So while you won´t be able to go straight to your first solo, I think that certain concepts of flying will be known to you and it will not suprise you that the aircraft looses speed if you pitch up, that you need to step on the rudder during takeoff or that you need to pull to keep the nose up in a turn. No, you don´t know HOW MUCH to pull, but you know that you have to.

All this adds up to keep your task saturation threshold lower, less things to churn over in your head, less new things to overwhelm you. This frees up mental capacity to focus on the things that you can´t learn using a PC flight simulation.

Cheers, Jan

 

3 hours ago, DJJose said:

You will never get an endorsement or pass a practical test without getting in the plane.

Unless you are Boeing and the FAA when trying to blow the dust off the 737 MAX (allegedly). Or at least that appears to be the case if we are to believe the recent rather troubling report from the US Senate. 🤣

A snippet from that report for people who haven't seen it:

'Boeing “inappropriately coached” some FAA test pilots to reach a desired outcome during the recertification tests, and some were even performed on simulators that weren’t equipped to re-create the same conditions as the crashes.'

Just now, Janov said:

So while you won´t be able to go straight to your first solo, I think that certain concepts of flying will be known to you and it will not surprise you that the aircraft loses speed if you pitch up, that you need to step on the rudder during takeoff or that you need to pull to keep the nose up in a turn. No, you don´t know HOW MUCH to pull, but you know that you have to.

All this adds up to keep your task saturation threshold lower, less things to churn over in your head, less new things to overwhelm you. This frees up mental capacity to focus on the things that you can´t learn using a PC flight simulation.

Cheers, Jan

Yup this kind of thing is absolutely true. Personally, I actually learned to fly before really being into flight sims too heavily; the flight sims I had played around with had some bearing on matters, but I had nevertheless really learned most stuff by having read tons of books on piloting and such. So all the fundamentals were pretty much ingrained in me. This undeniably have helped a lot when first getting in the real thing, since there is as you say, little need to struggle to recall basic concepts when you have a solid knowledge of them which can easily be called into operation.

If anyone thinks this is not true for flight simulations and how they can help you with stuff, I invite you to have someone who has never flown an aeroplane at all and doesn't really know too much about them, to have a go on your flight sim with no prompting. Get them to take off. They probably will have seen enough films to at least know you bring the stick back a bit, but then try a turn and ask them if they think the aeroplane is turned by using either the rudder, or the wings.

Or if you prefer, ask someone on the street if they can explain how a helicopter can fly backwards. They will probably know that the rotor blades spin around and provide lift and might even know that these are basically the helicopter's wings, but they almost certainly will have no clue whatsoever as to how the thing can impart force in any other direction and they probably also think that if the engine fails, the thing will fall out of the sky. Ask someone who has flown one in a sim however, and they'll certainly be a lot more clued up on the matter, so if you put both people in a real chopper or a real aeroplane, it's not going to be a surprise to see who does better out of the two.

Exactly @Janov. The greatest “danger” is that sims can build faulty habits and that primacy can be hard(-ish) to break. Personally I’m not finding it too difficult to overcome so far with my students. It generally manifests itself in too much emphasis on the panel. IMO the potential benefits outweigh the drawbacks. 

1 hour ago, snglecoil said:

It generally manifests itself in too much emphasis on the panel.

That is almost certainly the main danger of sim flying's potential to create a bad habit of not looking where you are going, and understandably so when sims have traditionally not had a convincing feeling of movement, but hopefully the convincing visuals of the new MS will help to allay that a bit and get people looking out of the window more.

1 hour ago, snglecoil said:

It generally manifests itself in too much emphasis on the panel.

Yes, it was something that my instructor complained about as well - I would focus on the artificial horizon to read and adjust the attitude of my Bonanza. He made me pick a speck of dirt on the windscreen instead and that way it was much easier to "finetune" attitude for better altitude keeping.

However the whole thing had to be rolled backwards when I went into IFR training wearing the "hood"... 🤪

Edited December 19, 20205 yr by Janov

5 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

to just get on a horse and ride off, people would laugh, but somehow with aircraft it is another matter.

That's because it is well known that a horse's throttle, brakes and directional accuracy are most definitely extremely ill-defined (especially if it spots a rustling bin liner or crisp packet blowing across the field!). Then again some virtual aircraft apparently have similar issues (not with crisp packets obviously!).. 

1 hour ago, Janov said:

However the whole thing had to be rolled backwards when I went into IFR training wearing the "hood"... 🤪

And this is where a home sim really becomes a valuable training tool even if you can’t log the time. Practicing an instrument scan and being able to fly procedures with a service like PilotEdge playing a very realistic role of ATC made my own instrument training a breeze. Sadly this is where MSFS severely limited at the moment. 

MSFS as a VFR trainer makes total sense. You shouldn't learn flying on a desktop simulator. Probably not on any simulator. The real aircraft is where you learn to fly.

But to practise VFR flights MSFS seems like a perfect fit. It's basically the first sim that enables you to prefly your routes at home and familiarize beforehand. Streets and rivers alone won't cut it. Remember that "oh, that's supposed to be that" moment when flying through areas you're familiar with in other sims? 😄

For IFR procedures other sims are still in the lead, especially P3D with its excellent addons.

Edited December 19, 20205 yr by tweekz

I find much more difficult to fly VFR or IFR in any simulation than in real life. Traffic patterns and touch and go manoeuvres are far easier IRL than in any simulator. IFR can be simulated more accurately but IRL you always have the option to request a cruising FL or a deviation due to weather. In MSFS 2020 I find ATC is your enemy. It does not work like that IRL.