1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'll take a high tech US aircraft any day over a Russian pea shooter. 🙂  Booya!

 

As long the software that handles all that high-tech networked situational awareness that is supposed to give those hi-tech fighters an edge, is not made by SolarWinds...

Edited January 7, 20215 yr by virtuali

13 minutes ago, WingZ said:

no airshow should be without this sound (listen at 1:45)

Absolutely! She has her own "blue note" . There's several videos surfacing recently demonstrating that new Su-57 noise.

4 minutes ago, virtuali said:

is not made by SolarWinds...

are they related to Dominion??  

33 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

Absolutely! She has her own "blue note" . There's several videos surfacing recently demonstrating that new Su-57 noise.

 

Which doesn't compare to the  Hunter.

Awesome. Sends a shiver up my spine.

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 20215 yr by martin-w

4 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'll disagree, that dogfight capability gives up operational effectiveness ... how many active combat dogfights have you seen in the past 2 decades using modern aircraft? 

Cheers, Rob.

Not many, but then again, I'd wager that when it comes to incidents of missile combat between fifth generation fighters using datalinks, there's probably never been one of those at all. Even so, when it comes to warfare, the point is not how many battles there have been, but whether one is prepared for the next one. If there is something you can expect a smart enemy to do, that would be to not do what you expect, nor play into the hands of your capabilities. Si vis pacem, para bellum, as they say.

Edited January 7, 20215 yr by Chock

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

Which doesn't compare to the  Hunter.

Maybe not, but still it's OK by me. 

 

17 minutes ago, Chock said:

Si vis pacem, para bellum, as they say.

Just set a large EMP device off let's see who has the best hardening for sensitive electronics.. 🍻

15 minutes ago, Chock said:

Even so, when it comes to warfare, the point is not how many battles there have been, but whether one is prepared for the next one.

One big point that often gets missed is that modern helmet mounted sights, over the shoulder missile shots and far more maneuverable missiles mean you don't need to get directly behind your target even if you do end up in close range. The missiles used in Vietnam were more limited in when and how you could use them, less reliable and more easily fooled, plus radars weren't as advanced. Modern AESA radars are far, far more advanced than what those old F-4s had. Dog fighting may not be quite dead yet, but I'm not sure I would want to find myself in one these days.

2 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

Which doesn't compare to the  Hunter.

Awesome. Sends a shiver up my spine.

 

 

 

That sounds awesome.....but after hearing it, I now can't get rid of the ear worm playing in my head....theme song for Supercar 😵

 

5 hours ago, HighBypass said:

Our F-35s will be too busy hovering over the decks of our carriers...eventually....

Huh?
There are 21 UK-owned and operated F-35B jets with the Fleet Air Arm, complemented by an additional 10 USMC F-35Bs on-board the HMS Queen Elizabeth.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/uk-progresses-f-35b-deliveries

And the carrier is preparing for its first deployment in just a few months' time after the usual sea trials when bringing a platform into use. Therefore, the F-35s are ready to go and have been for a while.

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2021/01/04/HMS-Queen-Elizabeths-Carrier-Strike-Group-reaches-initial-operating-capability/3631609792251/

 

43 minutes ago, Chock said:

I'd wager that when it comes to incidents of missile combat between fifth generation fighters using datalinks, there's probably never been one of those at all. Even so, when it comes to warfare, the point is not how many battles there have been, but whether one is prepared for the next one

I expect to see a lot more R&D along these lines:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/australian-loyal-wingman-drone-completes-first-taxi/

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-sensor-tech-to-revolutionise-british-combat-capability/

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/28721/General_Atomics_to_Manufacture_Hypersonic_Projectiles_for_U_S__Navy_s_Railgun_Project

1 hour ago, goates said:

One big point that often gets missed is that modern helmet mounted sights, over the shoulder missile shots and far more maneuverable missiles mean you don't need to get directly behind your target even if you do end up in close range. The missiles used in Vietnam were more limited in when and how you could use them, less reliable and more easily fooled, plus radars weren't as advanced. Modern AESA radars are far, far more advanced than what those old F-4s had. Dog fighting may not be quite dead yet, but I'm not sure I would want to find myself in one these days.

I'm not sure you could realistically expect to make an over the shoulder shot with a missile courtesy of a helmet-mounted sight; you can get a system lock of course, but you've still got to get within the launch envelope to let the thing go and even the new AIM-9X only has a seeker head which can pivot to a maximum off-boresight angle of 90 degrees. It blasts off the rail and rapidly accelerates to around Mach 2.5 really quickly too, and burns all its fuel in the first few seconds of flight to accelerate it up to that speed, so it's not as if it can do a 180 in anything like the kind of turning circle a fighter jet can manage, even if it had the fuel to do so. Which it doesn't. The success of the Sidewinder is really down to it getting to a target so quickly that the target doesn't really have time to react, rather than it having super-duper agility.

What the AIM 9X can potentially do however, with the benefit of a datalink, is launch before a lock is achieved, which is an interesting potential change in how dogfights might evolve a bit, although that capability is not part of its official requirement specification. Nevertheless, this means one aeroplane from a combat element in a wide spread can launch, and the other, perhaps in trail so more easily able to track a hard-turning target, could fairly easily achieve the lock and send it to the missile via a datalink, and that really could be a game-changer, particularly now that modern Sidewinder variants are getting vectored thrust capabilities.

1 hour ago, Chock said:

I'm not sure you could realistically expect to make an over the shoulder shot with a missile courtesy of a helmet-mounted sight; you can get a system lock of course, but you've still got to get within the launch envelope to let the thing go and even the new AIM-9X only has a seeker head which can pivot to a maximum off-boresight angle of 90 degrees.

That's exactly what has been developed and combined with lock-on after launch and thrust vectoring.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29158/the-aim-9x-sidewinder-may-finally-evolve-into-a-completely-new-and-longer-range-missile

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/8754/f-22-now-has-aim-9x-but-still-no-helmet-mounted-display-to-use-with-it

The RAAF has also demonstrated similar abilities with the ASRAAM.

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/raaf-kills-over-the-shoulder-asraam-05323/

So, as I was saying, turning dogfights my not be done yet, but I would not want to find myself in one.

 the new gen fighters are based more on energy combat and BVR nowadays , and until proven in combat against an equivalent i would say they both are comparable. The US has good tech no doubt.

   Having dog fighting capabilities in these gen fighters can also be an advantage when there is a lock on you to use the capabilities to out manuevre an A2A weapon, not that everything is proven but in theory it's a possibility. 

 In short they need to combat against each other to prove themselves. 

back in my Mig21 cockpit have some eagles to get.

Edited January 8, 20215 yr by HumptyDumpty

I don't believe any of the claims here about pros & cons of each until we get them in MFS DCS World for testing. Just then will we be able to say how good each one really is !

Edited January 8, 20215 yr by jcomm

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

until we get them in DCS for testing...

Fixed it for ya!  We all know that a sim for civilian craft with no shooty bang bang will not cut it