X-plane - The past, present & future

[Nick__Smith 1]

I recently had Austin on my podcast, to talk about X-plane's history & also the future development. 

If anyone is interested below with the link. 

https://share.transistor.fm/s/1aea9691

[mSparks 2,086]

It was @Bjoern that shattered my glass house on https://feedback.x-plane.com/ by pointing out that "we're looking into this [for the future]" basically meant "we don't really have this now".

listening to this (excellent interview - and thx for reminding me of the "cad vs photo album" post) I feel there is a lot of misplaced groupthink.

Probably too much for a single post, but I am more and more left with the impression that Austin (at least) does not see much of a future for xplane desktop, doesn't quite go that far maybe (or maybe he did.. 16.40 on.)

I dont think he realises how very different the mobile customer base is.

But when he says "mobile and desktop will become the same" do you think that means they will make the mobile version more 3PD friendly ..... or the desktop version less 3PD friendly and more like the mobile app is now?

[JGregory 76]

59 minutes ago, mSparks said:

But when he says "mobile and desktop will become the same" do you think that means they will make the mobile version more 3PD friendly ..... or the desktop version less 3PD friendly and more like the mobile app is now?

No.

[mSparks 2,086]

33 minutes ago, JGregory said:

No.

pretty much my reaction when he said it. But say it he did.

Edited March 16, 2021 by mSparks

[Greazer 1,321]

The roadmap sounds promising.  But what happens around the speed of sound is not that high a priority, because most planes never reach such a speed. So spend time on the higher priority items. Such as the better weather model and it's effects on the flight model for all aircraft. And on making the scenery more plausible. They got to focus on the right priorities.

[RXP 2,338]

3 hours ago, mSparks said:

But when he says "mobile and desktop will become the same" do you think that means they will make the mobile version more 3PD friendly ..... or the desktop version less 3PD friendly and more like the mobile app is now?

I didn't listen to the podcast yet, but in the past, they were alluding to this and my personal understanding is that the were referring to the mobile tech (CPU/GPU) getting so good and sometimes surpassing some desktops, they would probably end up merging X-Plane versions into a single code base shared for both, with the same level of details and the same feature set (user interface permitting of course).

[tonywob 4,769]

6 hours ago, Greazer said:

But what happens around the speed of sound is not that high a priority, because most planes never reach such a speed. So spend time on the higher priority items

X-Plane/Austin seemingly has always just done his own thing whether I (or you) consider something a priority or not, it'll continue non-the-less. For some people this feature is probably important (maybe a big commercial customer or some latest craze Austin has, e.g. VTOL), but so many people want different features that there will always be someone disappointed out there no matter what they do. Personally I couldn't care less about improving supersonic flight, but I'm sure someone else does and I'm sure they have their reasons.

What I don't like is the mobile simulator and the attention it gets. I understand why it exists and what it does for LR, but I don't like that it's getting a lot of developer attention at all. As long as I know the lighting and weather upgrade is coming for X-Plane 12 then I'm content enough. (Plus, there are always other simulators we can use now for eye-candy)

 

 

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

I don't think i can take 40 minutes of Austin talking, can you guys give me a short recap if there is something actually concrete and not something genering?

As for mobile/desktop, we know that mobile brings in money. When they say they will be unified, i assume it will mean that features will first arrive for mobile and then they will be ported over to the desktop version.

[mSparks 2,086]

7 hours ago, RXP said:

referring to the mobile tech (CPU/GPU) getting so good and sometimes surpassing some desktops

Historically yes, this time he goes one step further,

17.28

"At Laminar Research we are doing the job to get the software convergence, when the hardware is converging and the software is converging.... "

18.00

"Its going to be the same chips, and the same software ... the whole mobile vs desktop is going to fade away "

18.10

"There [will be] no difference between mobile and desktop"

____

Since the biggest difference between mobile and desktop now is how "friendly" they are to 3PDs that implies a seismic shift one way or the other.

1 hour ago, Pastaiolo said:

me a short recap if there is something actually concrete

Not really, its more the usual "look into Austins head", definitely maybe upgraded transonic and lifting body FM effects for the space shuttle/concord/fighter jets is trying to escape from there.

Edited March 16, 2021 by mSparks

[Paraffin 2,197]

14 hours ago, mSparks said:

It was @Bjoern that shattered my glass house on https://feedback.x-plane.com/ by pointing out that "we're looking into this [for the future]" basically meant "we don't really have this now".

 

Maybe I'm just trying to be optimistic, but I'm going to assume that "we don't have this now" means it's not on the short horizon for an XP11 update, but it will be a feature in XP12. Maybe not on first release but planned as part of the XP12 cycle. Which means I may live to see it, if it doesn't take another 10 years (sigh).
 

Quote

But when he says "mobile and desktop will become the same" do you think that means they will make the mobile version more 3PD friendly ..... or the desktop version less 3PD friendly and more like the mobile app is now?

I think he's just talking about merging the codebase because it's possible now with the increasing power of mobile CPUs. I haven't listened to the podcast but from the comments here, it sounds like Austin is excited about the technical side of this.

I'm sure he realizes the difference between the desktop and mobile markets. You're not going to be using hardware flight controls on mobile, for one thing. Although some version of VR or AR on mobile is likely at some point, and that may be another thing he's thinking about.
 

[mSparks 2,086]

1 hour ago, Paraffin said:

but it will be a feature in XP12

This is one of the "groupthink" things I talked about.

Everything new being discussed seems to be in the very early stages, that could very well mean a new "major version" is a long time off (a lot of new graphics stuff should now be a quick turn around - for desktop - but mobiles and most macs don't have the GPU horsepower).

1 hour ago, Paraffin said:

I think he's just talking about merging the codebase because it's possible now with the increasing power of mobile CPUs.

There's good reason RTX3080 cards draw 320 watts, and those features aren't coming to mobile (or Apple products) any time soon - if ever.....

Edited March 16, 2021 by mSparks

[FlyBaby 659]

Austin’s vision for Hardware / Software convergence and the “Dynamic Unpredictable World” sounds far off.

Given his comments around Vulkan being birthed from a professional costumer’s complaint about stutters (vs general consumer complaints), Austin did not see feedback (in general) from the larger community as a priority. So who really needed to complain about those clouds???

To me, the Podcast and general silence from LR indicates that XP will not advance much over the next 1 or 2 years.

LR does their own thing, and their PC app cannot capitalize on additional revenue streams to help fund constant / frequent development. DCS, MSFS, & TSW2 all have revenue streams beyond their initial sale to fund frequent development. MSFS had an operating store with products on day 1.

All of these other Devs are in constant major development with improvement / additions to their platform not to mention their emphasis on community engagement (feedback / livestreams / roadmap). With these other sims, users have something to look forward to each month / quarter.

For years, LR did not plan / invest for large scale development & sales for XP; and it now shows. While other Sim Devs have adapted to what is required for growth / sustainability; LR is left behind with an old school mentality, an old looking product, and not much to say “to those wanting more” about the “immediate” future.

I think that XP12 (if it ever sees the light of day) will not see much advancement, or get many sales especially if LR can’t offer continued support / development / additions / engagement at the level of other Devs.  

To me, Austin has many other projects that have a higher priority...for XP to ever really get the attention / investment that it needs to “advance” like other sims. XP11 may be as good as it gets, which is good enough for many loyal users.

With respect to their mobile app…

To me, this is where XP shines, LR has a continuous revenue stream from the in-app purchases that can fund resources for further development. This is the market that LR can dominate and I believe that LR will (at some point) just mainly focus on this market from an investment / growth aspect.

[JGregory 76]

25 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

Austin’s vision for Hardware / Software convergence and the “Dynamic Unpredictable World” sounds far off.

 

Given his comments around Vulkan being birthed from a professional costumer’s complaint about stutters (vs general consumer complaints), Austin did not see feedback (in general) from the larger community as a priority. So who really needed to complain about those clouds???

 

To me, the Podcast and general silence from LR indicates that XP will not advance much over the next 1 or 2 years.

 

LR does their own thing, and their PC app cannot capitalize on additional revenue streams to help fund constant / frequent development. DCS, MSFS, & TSW2 all have revenue streams beyond their initial sale to fund frequent development. MSFS had an operating store with products on day 1.

 

All of these other Devs are in constant major development with improvement / additions to their platform not to mention their emphasis on community engagement (feedback / livestreams / roadmap). With these other sims, users have something to look forward to each month / quarter.

For years, LR did not plan / invest for large scale development & sales for XP; and it now shows. While other Sim Devs have adapted to what is required for growth / sustainability; LR is left behind with an old school mentality, an old looking product, and not much to say “to those wanting more” about the “immediate” future.

 

I think that XP12 (if it ever sees the light of day) will not see much advancement, or get many sales especially if LR can’t offer continued support / development / additions / engagement at the level of other Devs.  

 

To me, Austin has many other projects that have a higher priority...for XP to ever really get the attention / investment that it needs to “advance” like other sims. XP11 may be as good as it gets, which is good enough for many loyal users.

 

With respect to their mobile app…

 

To me, this is where XP shines, LR has a continuous revenue stream from the in-app purchases that can fund resources for further development. This is the market that LR can dominate and I believe that LR will (at some point) just mainly focus on this market from an investment / growth aspect.

 

Wrong in oh so many ways

[mjrhealth 820]

How this works.

If Austin did say what they where doing, people would complain, as you see above, Its not what I want.

If they set a date, people will complain, its not quick enough.

If they released something, it isnt what I wanted its broken,

If they told you of they are fixing it, People will complain you shouldnt have released it although we demanded it.

Than when they give you what you want, you will find something else to complain about.

You have all spend fat to much time with our friend @Greazer he doesnt have to post anymore because you all seem to be doing it for Him.

What a happy bunch you are.

[mSparks 2,086]

5 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

an old looking product

Pretty sure the main problem is precisely the opposite of that. They have such a great product already its tough to find ways to improve on it in order to justify a new major version.

vs

Really doesn't demand a new release, the other sims are years off anything remotely close. Not to mention the things that are left to do (and on the feedback page) are not what sells flight sim to anyone that can afford better hardware than a mobile phone.

4 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

If Austin did say what they where doing, people would complain, as you see above, Its not what I want.

Generally people don't know what they want, that isn't a reason not to tell them what they are getting.

4 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

If they set a date, people will complain, its not quick enough.

If it is going to take a long time, they should say so, because some people are holding off purchasing otherwise great products - including X-Plane itself. Plus it would take some of the pressure off them.

If it isn't going to take a long time, there is absolutely no reason not to say so.

4 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

If they told you of they are fixing it, People will complain you shouldnt have released it although we demanded it.

They have, and they are - just not all the things that really need either fixing or hiding away lest people think they actually work.

4 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

Than when they give you what you want, you will find something else to complain about.

If there wasn't anything to complain about, there would be nothing left for them to do, and they'd all be searching for new jobs.

4 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

What a happy bunch you are.

Not as happy as when sipping champagne [Rakija] on the yacht or atop of a ski slope, but pretty happy, yes. Although definitely not as happy as those who are happiest when they are complaining.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by mSparks