Let's not accept the fact that FS is just a videogame now

[MrFuzzy 2,118]

I did a simple IFR flight with the A320 from Milan to Frankfurt this morning and found many other "bad" areas south of Frankfurt, where framerate drops to 12 fps for 2-3 minutes with the Manipulators dark red band in the fps counter. Outside of these areas the framerate was 38-40 fps in VR, very smooth despite the clouds coverage. On the ground at Frankfurt I continued to have low framerates (20-22) limited by main thread. I switched to 2D mode (High end settings, render scale 100, 2560x1440) and the framerate stayed the same, limited by main thread. In many other big airports with the A320 I get 40-50 fps in 2D mode and I suspect that the influence of the bad areas extends to their vicinity.

This, along with the A/P bug that forced me to use the DIR workaround twice to resume the flight plan after inexplicable 180° steep turns, ruined my experience considerably.

I believe that the world is disseminated with "bad areas" right now and it's very easy to find them unless you fly only VFR for few miles. 

It's difficult to justify Asobo wasting their time with contrails, FSX liveries and world updates when basic stuff still isn't working 7 months after the release.

MS & Asobo are just following the market in my opinion. MSFS will be released for console for the first time in history. Consoles are made for videogames and are the platform that yields the majority of videogame sales. The videogame market is made by very few simmers who know about navigation, use approach plates and can set an MCDU and many many gamers who can't wait to pilot an airliner from external view and crash it on a photorealistic skyscraper.

Now someone would answer: OK, if FS is not heading the way you'd like, stop using it; having spent 120 $ on it is not a big deal after all.

Sure, it's not a big deal. Even having spent 2,000 $ on an RTX 3090 and other 1,500 $ to upgrade the rest of the PC is not a big deal. None of it is a big deal: the real problem is that, after using FS 2020 for 300+ hours and getting addicted to "next gen" graphics, it is impossible for me to go back to XPlane and Prepar3D.

FS 2020 charmed many of us with its looks just like a beautiful young girl could bewitch us and take us away from our faithful wives, only to give us a false hope of happiness, only to get our money, mock us and eventually leave us heartbroken.

We are not the mass of casual gamers, we are few but we are important if MS wants to keep the word "simulator" in the name of the franchise in the future.

Our feedback is important, Asobo and MS should listen to us and dedicate resources where is really important. We can fly if the mesh is not 1 m accurate and the Pisa tower is not actually leaning, we will never complain about that... but we need a working simulator.

Thanks and sorry for the rant.

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by MrFuzzy

[Ricardo41 5,949]

Solution: turn off your fps counter, you'll be a much happier simmer.....

[omarsmak30 4,068]

Sorry I am bit missing the idea of the post, so is it about the performance issue, or is it about the XBox release? If about the performance issues, that has been escalated and they already said they are investigating the issue. If about the XBox release, Jörg himself has no idea how it will be preserved if you listened to his latest interview.

And many times this has been mentioned, those who are working on other stuff like liveries, models .. etc have nothing to do with core sim, you have multiple teams with different skills sets and qualifications. 

 

[Bobsk8 12,735]

A co worker who is an avid gamer and a programmer, told me a month ago that he was surprised that Asobo got the contract to build MSFS 2020. He said that before that they made games that were not very complex. I'm don't know if this is true or not, but that is what he claimed. 

[MrFuzzy 2,118]

13 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Solution: turn off your fps counter, you'll be a much happier simmer.....

It was off, I don't keep it on in VR... but the sim started to stutter a lot and I took off the headset to see what was happening, to realize that I was caught in a bad manipulators area.

11 minutes ago, omarsmak30 said:

Sorry I am bit missing the idea of the post, so is it about the performance issue, or is it about the XBox release? If about the performance issues, that has been escalated and they already said they are investigating the issue. If about the XBox release, Jörg himself has no idea how it will be preserved if you listened to his latest interview.

And many times this has been mentioned, those who are working on other stuff like liveries, models .. etc have nothing to do with core sim, you have multiple teams with different skills sets and qualifications. 

 

Sure, who works on liveries and POIs is not even a programmer... but you have to pay their salaries too, and I guess that they have a budget just like every company

4 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

A co worker who is an avid gamer and a programmer, told me a month ago that he was surprised that Asobo got the contract to build MSFS 2020. He said that before that they made games that were not very complex. I'm don't know if this is true or not, but that is what he claimed. 

A Plague Tale was a good game but of course it had nothing to do with the complexity of a flight simulator.

Edited March 23, 2021 by MrFuzzy

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

18 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Solution: turn off your fps counter, you'll be a much happier simmer.....

The FPS counter is not the culprit of 2-3 FPS and Manipulators stutters.

[Michael Moe 495]

I actually dont have any complains stepping in on Leonardo MaddogX ,FSL and PMDG at all comming straight from MSFS.

The systems and handling is way more occupied than looking outside .

The new airports in P3DV5 is really great.

Michael Moe

Edited March 23, 2021 by Michael Moe

[omarsmak30 4,068]

59 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

Sure, who works on liveries and POIs is not even a programmer... but you have to pay their salaries too, and I guess that they have a budget just like every company

More programmers, doesn't mean they will fix issues better, it could even mean more chaos ;). I think Asobo's problem is more at the cross teams communication, I think MSFS project made them grow very fast but then at the same time, the issue with managing teams cross collaboration grow. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by omarsmak30

[crimplene 634]

43 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

A co worker who is an avid gamer and a programmer, told me a month ago that he was surprised that Asobo got the contract to build MSFS 2020. He said that before that they made games that were not very complex. I'm don't know if this is true or not, but that is what he claimed. 

Spreading some rumours and unfounded theories always is a good idea!

Edited March 23, 2021 by crimplene

[ErichB 3,643]

17 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

A co worker who is an avid gamer and a programmer, told me a month ago that he was surprised that Asobo got the contract to build MSFS 2020. He said that before that they made games that were not very complex. I'm don't know if this is true or not, but that is what he claimed. 

Everyone these days is an expert.  Your co-worker is apparently therefore an expert on Asobo's in-house skillset and capability - which I'm sure he is not.  I'm pretty sure Microsoft's due diligence on Asobo was much more thorough than a whim.

[crimplene 634]

44 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

... found many other "bad" areas south of Frankfurt, where framerate drops to 12 fps for 2-3 minutes with the Manipulators dark red band in the fps counter. Outside of these areas the framerate was 38-40 fps in VR, very smooth despite the clouds coverage. On the ground at Frankfurt I continued to have low framerates (20-22) limited by main thread.

I believe that the world is disseminated with "bad areas" right now and it's very easy to find them unless you fly only VFR for few miles. 

It's difficult to justify Asobo wasting their time with contrails, FSX liveries and world updates when basic stuff still isn't working 7 months after the release.

MS & Asobo are just following the market in my opinion.

...

Thanks and sorry for the rant.

 

Well, yes, it is a rant. 🙂

Of course you describe the fps drop problem correctly but it still is a strange idea that not working on contrails or world updates would help with stutters. It would probably alienate even more users who are waiting for those updates, because not all users have the same (your) priorities. And: a scenery developer most likely would not be able to help with core sim bugfixes. Do you want him to sit and wait?

Asobo has acknowledged the bug and writes that they are trying to fix it "ASAP".

Expressing some discontent always is ok and might build up some extra pressure. Jumping to wrong conclusions on the other hand, does not help at all.

So, Asobo, please hear me out: I am sick of daily new postings about this bug. Fix it! Now! So we can talk about other things! 🙂

Edited March 23, 2021 by crimplene

[Bobsk8 12,735]

24 minutes ago, ErichB said:

Everyone these days is an expert.  Your co-worker is apparently therefore an expert on Asobo's in-house skillset and capability - which I'm sure he is not.  I'm pretty sure Microsoft's due diligence on Asobo was much more thorough than a whim.

Oh , OK, that is why MSFS 2020 is so bug free and works so well for everyone. By the way, name a PC  game that Asobo produced that is anywhere near the complexity of MSFS 2020. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Bobsk8

[Tom Wright 438]

55 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

A co worker who is an avid gamer and a programmer, told me a month ago that he was surprised that Asobo got the contract to build MSFS 2020. He said that before that they made games that were not very complex. I'm don't know if this is true or not, but that is what he claimed. 

But so were Aces who worked on all the previous iterations of Microsoft Flight Simulator were they not?

All 'games' have a graphics engine and a physics engine behind them. Whether it's portraying planes, trains or blowing people's heads off doesn't actually make a huge amount of difference in their complexity actually.

Fun fact: MSFS actually uses the same game engine as Forza, a motor racing game.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Tom Wright

[Ricardo41 5,949]

Aso

48 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

The FPS counter is not the culprit of 2-3 FPS and Manipulators stutters.

You kind of missed my point....

....and A Plague Tale: Innocence was one of the best games of 2019. Highly recommended. Available on steam. 

[Chock 17,769]

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

A co worker who is an avid gamer and a programmer, told me a month ago that he was surprised that Asobo got the contract to build MSFS 2020. He said that before that they made games that were not very complex. I'm don't know if this is true or not, but that is what he claimed. 

Any company, whether they are making computer games, pencils, cream cakes, or missile launchers, gets in equipment and expertise for the task at hand, so if Asobo had previously made games which were not like flight simulator, this isn't really relevant to the task at hand, providing they hire competent staff for the job and manage things properly.

If I went working for Boots the Chemists, a company which knows nothing about film production, they'd instantly gain expertise on movie special effects when I showed up on my first day, whereas the day before they'd have had no abilities to do that whatsoever. Similarly, General Motors never made warplanes until they began to churn out a cr@pload of Grumman TBM Avengers for the US Navy courtesy of the expertise Grumman sent over to their plants, so in spite of them being new at making aeroplanes, those GM-built ones were good enough to help win WW2 in the Pacific...

Edited March 23, 2021 by Chock