1 minute ago, ILSFREAK said:

Mm If we cant make it here on this beautifull place with all its resources (for free) cant see we will make it any other place

Note I know this was ment in a broad perspective Martin

 

We have "made it" here on this beautiful Earth. We've been here for a rather long time and thrived. But if a gigantic asteroid, or a super volcano, or a CME or one of the other existential threats pays us a visit, our beautiful Earth won't be a beautiful Earth anymore. In fact it won't be inhabitable. And that will be the end of our species unless we have an refuge elsewhere in the solar system. 

4 minutes ago, ILSFREAK said:

Mm If we cant make it here on this beautifull place with all its resources (for free) cant see we will make it any other place

That is probably the wisest thing said so far in this thread.

I heard once that if Ghandi, ******* and Mother Theresa were stranded together on a desert island at the end of a few months one of them would be an A-hole and the other two would tell you why.

I don't think the human race was meant to live forever either scientifically or Biblically.

Noel

14 minutes ago, martin-w said:

We have "made it" here on this beautiful Earth. We've been here for a rather long time and thrived.

Agreed. We've "made it" radioactive, uninhabitable, an open sewer, disposable, toxic. Our rivers kill off the fish that live in them. They start on fire. Manmade disasters, not nature.

We have not been here a long time. Other species inhabited the earth millions of times longer than humans and today are nowhere to be seen.

We have thrived at the expense of the planet we need to keep existing. I believe our (Human-kind's) next great advancement will be a dystopian society where we can only reminisce about the way things use to be. Pretty bleak but it does circle back to the theme of the OP. Think I'll rewatch the Mad Max movies to get ready for the future.

PS: I was talking about autonomous driving, not Mars.

Going to Mars:

OK - who volunteers to spend the next 6 months or so aboard a cylinder with with perhaps less room than a studio apartment, and maybe three or four other shipmates?  After that, about a year or more on the return trip?  Oh, and likely no gravity, plus a good dose of solar radiation.  Besides all that,  critical maneuvering to to orbit, and then land safely on Mars, and later, a shuttle ride to back  to hopefully meet-up with the mother ship.  All with the specter  of Murphy's Law in play...   

Anybody?

 

 

27 minutes ago, overspeed3 said:

OK - who volunteers to spend the next 6 months or so aboard a cylinder with with perhaps less room than a studio apartment, and maybe three or four other shipmates?  After that, about a year or more on the return trip?  Oh, and likely no gravity, plus a good dose of solar radiation.  Besides all that,  critical maneuvering to to orbit, and then land safely on Mars, and later, a shuttle ride to back  to hopefully meet-up with the mother ship.  All with the specter  of Murphy's Law in play... 

And four people living in such close quarters for such a long period of time all getting along with each other and not fraying each other's nerves?  If and when they get back to terra firma they probably will never want to see each other again.

Noel

4 minutes ago, birdguy said:

All with the specter  of Murphy's Law in play... 

Does anyone know how Murphy of Murphy's Law fame died?

Murphy was on a walking tour of the United States.

Early one morning he checked out of his motel room, ate breakfast, and began walking again.  Of course he was on the side of the road facing traffic like he was supposed to.

Then he got run down from behind by a confused British tourist driving on the wrong side of the road.

Noel

Edited April 10, 20215 yr by birdguy

53 minutes ago, overspeed3 said:

OK - who volunteers to spend the next 6 months or so aboard a cylinder with with perhaps less room than a studio apartment, and maybe three or four other shipmates?  After that, about a year or more on the return trip?  Oh, and likely no gravity, plus a good dose of solar radiation.  Besides all that,  critical maneuvering to to orbit, and then land safely on Mars, and later, a shuttle ride to back  to hopefully meet-up with the mother ship.  All with the specter  of Murphy's Law in play...  

Kind of like being on the ISS, isn't it? Except that, if anything goes wrong, there would be no chance of rescue.

Edited April 10, 20215 yr by dmwalker

7 hours ago, Reader said:

Not all of the rest of the world is in awe and there are many other perspectives on the world as viewed from outside the USA instead of from inside outwards.

I don't really care if the rest of the world is in awe or not.  Thanks for your commentary.

Dave

Indeed, that much is very clear. It's just that I live in the "rest of the world" where sometimes things look a little different. I expect that it is all a matter of perspective.

4 hours ago, Twenty6 said:

Agreed. We've "made it" radioactive, uninhabitable, an open sewer, disposable, toxic. Our rivers kill off the fish that live in them. They start on fire. Manmade disasters, not nature.

 

I don't see your point. The above, although somewhat exaggerated, doesn't mean we just give up and not bother to have a Plan B elsewhere in the solar system. 

 

4 hours ago, Twenty6 said:

We have not been here a long time. Other species inhabited the earth millions of times longer than humans and today are nowhere to be seen.

 

I still don't see your point. 

 

4 hours ago, Twenty6 said:

We have thrived at the expense of the planet we need to keep existing.

 

Very true. But again, despite that fact, we don't just give up, right the species off, and not bother to have an alternative location we can live in the solar system for the eventuality where the Earth is hit by a natural or unnatural disaster. And of course we are learning, there is a very big environmental movement now, and we know we must find alternative ways of living. 

 

4 hours ago, Twenty6 said:

I believe our (Human-kind's) next great advancement will be a dystopian society where we can only reminisce about the way things use to be.

 

What you believe means nothing. 🙂 My belief is more optimistic. My belief means nothing either. Meanwhile... while we hypothesise about the human races future, lets support the idea of having a plan B off planet. After all, its not costing us anything, SpaceX are doing it with their own money. And lets support the idea of implants that can help the blind see, the paralysed walk, and the deaf hear. 

3 hours ago, overspeed3 said:

Going to Mars:

OK - who volunteers to spend the next 6 months or so aboard a cylinder with with perhaps less room than a studio apartment, and maybe three or four other shipmates?  After that, about a year or more on the return trip?  Oh, and likely no gravity, plus a good dose of solar radiation.  Besides all that,  critical maneuvering to to orbit, and then land safely on Mars, and later, a shuttle ride to back  to hopefully meet-up with the mother ship.  All with the specter  of Murphy's Law in play...   

Anybody?

 

I don't think you get it. There are already a multitude of volunteers for the endeavour. 

https://community.mars-one.com/last_activity/ALL/18/82/ALL/ALL/5/3

So yes, you might not fancy the trip to Mars and spending time there but there are many adventurous human beings who do. And of course, there are a multitude of scientists, planetary geologists and scientists from other fields who have dreamt of having the opportunity to do just that. Yes, it will be difficult and risky but taking such risks is what has advanced our species. 

I wouldn't have fancied being an early colonizer of America, that dreadfully long voyage across the ocean, the scurvy, death, shipwreck and when you get there probably succumbing to a dreadful disease or being killed and tortured by the natives. But guess what... a multitude did. 

Humankind must push the envelope, if we don't we will surely stagnate and become extinct. But if we don't, if we survive, we will continue to learn and advance and one day live in perfect harmony with the natural world. 

Going to Mars:

OK - who volunteers to spend the next 6 months or so aboard a cylinder with with perhaps less room than a studio apartment, and maybe three or four other shipmates?  After that, about a year or more on the return trip?  Oh, and likely no gravity, plus a good dose of solar radiation.  Besides all that,  critical maneuvering to to orbit, and then land safely on Mars, and later, a shuttle ride to back  to hopefully meet-up with the mother ship.  All with the specter  of Murphy's Law in play...   

Anybody?

 

 

I cannot prove it, but I predict that sophisticated AI robots in human form (two arms and two legs) will go to Mars way before people do.  I certainly believe they can be taught to pick-up interesting rocks, take soil samples, and load it all into a shuttle for return to Earth.  They  probably can almost do that very task today!  Plus, down the road, they also can be programmed for more intense scientific research like trying to germinate potted plants,  deep drilling into the soil and rocks, etc.   

But the biggest advantage of sending AI explorers:  A lot cheaper by billions of $$$ than sending live astronauts! 

23 minutes ago, overspeed3 said:

I predict that sophisticated AI robots in human form (two arms and two legs) will go to Mars way before people do.

I don't think humanoid robots are a good idea. I think the Perseverance Rover format is best with a low centre of gravity and a wide "stance" for stability. It seems better to improve upon the established format rather than to try something new to the Martian environment.

8 hours ago, Twenty6 said:

Agreed. We've "made it" radioactive, uninhabitable, an open sewer, disposable, toxic. Our rivers kill off the fish that live in them. They start on fire. Manmade disasters, not nature.

We have not been here a long time. Other species inhabited the earth millions of times longer than humans and today are nowhere to be seen.

We have thrived at the expense of the planet we need to keep existing.

Yes, there are parts of the planet that are toxic sewers, but I believe that many countries have made great progress over the past 50 or so years in cleaning things up.  I know the U.S. has and many others as well.

Yes, we thrive at the expense of the planet.  I don't think there is any way of getting around this.  People consume resources whether we like it or not.  Not to start another long argument, but even "green" energy uses a lot of natural resources.  There is no free lunch.  The best and most effective thing that we can do is conserve, which includes recycling and simply consuming less.  I see a lot of excess out there, especially in the USA,

As much as I hate to say it, we need population control.  We should not have families with more than 2 children.  Fortunately, it looks to me like most families in more affluent countries naturally limit their family size to 1 or 2 children, but this is not the culture in much of the world. 

Unfortunately, at least in the USA, we have an economic system that is highly dependent upon constant growth.  This just isn't sustainable long term.

I don't know what the answer is, but we had better figure out something.

Dave