50 minutes ago, mSparks said:

you miss my point completely.

its not about xplane asobo laminar or msfs.

Its about the users and the hardware they have.

users with gpus remotely capable of this stuff are still a very tiny minority:

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

Sid has pushed the boundaries of what is possible on "next gen" hardware - and may very likely talk about it a gdc.

MS promising any kind of similar result on GA hardware wasnt quite as bad as it first seemed (x box x is a beast), but if you are one of the 95% of PC owners with a gpu less than a 2080 this preview is likely not going to look remotely similar on the hardware you currently own.

Alright, gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. I disagree though 😄

People running flight sims on their home PCs are generally speaking not the dual-core-with-integrated-graphics-crowd.

Stuff like hairworks has been around for almost a decade now. We already have huge amounts of 3D objects in software and - it works.

Detailed leaves are nice for sure. But they are neither revolutionary nor something where Laminar is (as it sounds from some people) pioneering in the graphics department.

Don't fall for that marketing mumbo jumbo. LR/XP is on it's way trying to catch up to present time and now people start framing that as taking the lead and use words like revolutionary, bragging and such. This seems comically absurd to me.

I mean it's not like they announced full raytracing for XP11 - that would have been at least a bit revolutionary.

Now go ahead and bash me (this is more directed to the crowd, not you, mSparks)

Edited July 31, 20214 yr by rka

7 minutes ago, rka said:

Stuff like hairworks has been around for almost a decade now. We already have huge amounts of 3D objects in software and - it works.

but these are for a few miles visibility at most, even xp11 has decent trees

-> up close and even with seasons

that isnt the problem being solved here, the problem being solved here is keeping that looking realistic inside a forest that is 25 miles away, and that takes more compute grunt than you could buy until very recently - and even now only at a very high price premium.

 

2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

even xp11 has decent trees

The developers seem to be coming to a different conclusion 🙂

3 minutes ago, mSparks said:

that isnt the problem being solved here, the problem being solved here is keeping that looking realistic inside a forest that is 25 miles away, and that takes more compute grunt than you could buy until very recently - and even now only at a very high price premium.

I'm honestly not too bothered about the looks of leaves 25 miles away. I'd actually even ask for them NOT to spend lots of compute grunt on the realistic depiction of leaves in 25 miles distance!

 

 

35 minutes ago, rka said:

I'm honestly not too bothered about the looks of leaves 25 miles away. I'd actually even ask for them NOT to spend lots of compute grunt on the realistic depiction of leaves in 25 miles distance!

No one knows the draw distance.  The fact it's implemented, and using the GPU, that's something I didn't even know.  They kept a lot of this stuff from developers.

But the fact it's implemented, I think it would be agreeable that LR has definitely brought X-Plane up to 2021 standards, and done things that the competition hasn't even done.

Edited July 31, 20214 yr by GoranM

14 minutes ago, GoranM said:

No one knows the draw distance.  The fact it's implemented, and using the GPU, that's something I didn't even know.  They kept a lot of this stuff from developers.

Well, I was really thinking you might have known more all the time, interesting to see you didn't.

14 minutes ago, GoranM said:

But the fact it's implemented, I think it would be agreeable that LR has definitely brought X-Plane up to 2021 standards, and done things that the competition hasn't even done.

I'd say: When that is available to be used, they will have brought the trees in X-Plane up to 2021 standards. But that's mostly nitpicking.

I definitely agree that this is a good step in the right direction though.

10 minutes ago, rka said:

Well, I was really thinking you might have known more all the time, interesting to see you didn't.

Safe to say I know more than the general flight sim community.  I'm part of a group of developers who provide feedback and suggestions to LR in a private group.  And they action many of our ideas.

But that doesn't mean I know everything that comes out of the LR offices.  Nor did I ever claim to know everything about what goes into future X-Plane releases.

I don't know why you would find that interesting...but anyway...🤷‍♂️

Edited July 31, 20214 yr by GoranM

9 minutes ago, GoranM said:

I don't know why you would find that interesting...but anyway...🤷‍♂️

It would have made some of your statements regarding the future of XP more understandable to me, that's all. I didn't mean to say you claimed to know everything about the future of XP.

I never, ever speculate. If I say something about X-Plane, it’s because I was told, and I would only make it public if I was told it’s ok to talk about. 

There's something I really look fwd, and someone pointed me to a post atbthe devs blog about it.

Xp12 is going to properly model the Sun and Moon and daylight variation with date and latitude !!!

As much as I enjoy the looks and now also the smoothness of Mfs, I also really look forward for Xp12. It's going to be a 1st day buy for me !!!

1 hour ago, rka said:

I'm honestly not too bothered about the looks of leaves 25 miles away. I'd actually even ask for them NOT to spend lots of compute grunt on the realistic depiction of leaves in 25 miles distance!

thats what changed for new gen hardware.

new gpus have thousands of cores - each with about as much compute horsepower as the 4 or so in your cpu - and they are sat there doing nothing.

previous gen gpus didnt, great at matrix multiplication and not much else.

I just viewed the next gen forestry.  Looks amazing.  I wonder what else will be 'amazing to me,  as it is revealed.  Still an X'er.... 🙂

1 minute ago, Sesquashtoo said:

I just viewed the next gen forestry.  Looks amazing.  I wonder what else will be 'amazing to me,  as it is revealed.  Still an X'er.... 🙂

It is amazing indeed and lots to look forward to.

Nice seeing you, it been a while.

Bob

 

I just like flying the plane. If the backdrop looks well enough for me to suspend disbelief as I focus on piloting the plane it's good. 

Correct vector and terrain

Towns whose footprints and street grids are close to the real places. 

Well known landmarks.

I still can't believe it took until msfs 2020 to have say the Rockville Railroad bridge look like itself. Longest stone arch on earth and an engineering landmark. Or the evaporator towers of TMI lined up correctly. Or KDOV looking military. Just a few examples. 

7 hours ago, mSparks said:

thats what changed for new gen hardware.

new gpus have thousands of cores - each with about as much compute horsepower as the 4 or so in your cpu - and they are sat there doing nothing.

previous gen gpus didnt, great at matrix multiplication and not much else.

My Radeon 580 can run FSX, P3D v4 and XP 11 at top settings and I still average 20 to 30. Smooth to. It's coupled to a Ryzen 5 and 32 gigs. Not top shelf but it surprises me.

6 hours ago, Gary1124 said:

My Radeon 580 can run FSX, P3D v4 and XP 11 at top settings and I still average 20 to 30. Smooth to. It's coupled to a Ryzen 5 and 32 gigs. Not top shelf but it surprises me.

I dont know much about the amd lineup, around 2013 or so people doing gpu compute in any kind of serious fashion were buying Nvidia titans by the truckload at $10,000 a card, RTX20 series cards matched that performance, RTX30 series cards exceeded it. 

GPGPU specific benchmarks here

https://compubench.com/result.jsp

GPGPU stuff hasnt made it into consumer software yet as far as I know (unless you count crypto mining)

 

 

Edited August 1, 20214 yr by mSparks