54 minutes ago, DJJose said:

BTW, for IFR simulation on a PC sim, P3D is a much better option.

May I ask why?

I'm doing exactly the same with regards to instrument navigating. And I find the hindrence of weather in MSFS more trickier than P3D. 

Edited September 12, 20214 yr by bigifooti

32 minutes ago, bigifooti said:

May I ask why?

I'm doing exactly the same with regards to instrument navigating. And I find the hindrence of weather in MSFS more trickier than P3D. 

I flew P3D for years, and don't think it was ever  better for IFR than MSFS 2020, and I have thousands of hours flying IFR in P3d. 

It actually is a pleasure to handfly IFR Departures and approaches in the FBW Neo. So much fun!

46 minutes ago, bigifooti said:

May I ask why?

I'm doing exactly the same with regards to instrument navigating. And I find the hindrence of weather in MSFS more trickier than P3D. 

It depends on your choice of weather generator. When I combined ASP & REX Skyforce, it was the most immersive and realistic weather I ever enjoyed in any sim. MSFS can be beautiful at times but when it comes to generating real world weather, it still needs to be improved.

The 2nd reason is the maturity of the payware add-ons navigation equipment.

Finally, what makes IFR so unique is that you need to create & file and IFR flight plan. You then need to get an ATC clearance, and then you follow ATC instructions throughout a flight.

I find that the default ATC P3D does a much better job at simulating ATC, but if you want the best, then PilotEdge.Net is the best option.

Jose

 

2 minutes ago, DJJose said:

It depends on your choice of weather generator. When I combined ASP & REX Skyforce, it was the most immersive and realistic weather I ever enjoyed in any sim. MSFS can be beautiful at times but when it comes to generating real world weather, it still needs to be improved.

The 2nd reason is the maturity of the payware add-ons navigation equipment.

Finally, what makes IFR so unique is that you need to create & file and IFR flight plan. You then need to get an ATC clearance, and then you follow ATC instructions throughout a flight.

I find that the default ATC P3D does a much better job at simulating ATC, but if you want the best, then PilotEdge.Net is the best option.

Jose

 

I always found the default ATC in P3D totally useless. I stopped using it after about a dozen flights and started using add on programs for ATC, winding up with PF3, which I am still using years later in MSFS, I get ATIS, Clearance Ground, Tower, Centers, Approach, Tower and ground with PF3. Over 100 voices, so it never is listening to the same voice pretending they are someone else when you switch frequencies, which really ruins it for me. Also the ATC chatter I get is talking to the actual aircraft flying near me in MSFS, rather than some made up recordings that have no relation to what is flying around me. Pilot Edge is OK, if you want to fly in a small goldfish bowl of an  area of the US. . I like to fly all over the world, so to me  that doesn't work at all. Right now I am approaching Dresden in Germany, can't do that in Pilotedge. 

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I often do flights in MSFS not using the GPS , only VOR, NDB.  Keeps me in practice in case the GPS blows a fuse. 

Hey same here! ….mainly because that was the only thing the sim could do until a few weeks ago. Like it or not, GPS based navigation has become the real world de facto standard. In the US VORs are dropping out of service regularly. I don’t know what the timeline is exactly, but the long term plan is to establish minimum operational network in terms of VOR coverage. NDBs have been disappearing for a while, but they still out there. What is Increasingly rare is to find a plane that is actually equipped with an operating ADF radio. 

So yes, I get it. You can currently do full IFR from departure, onto the enroute structure, and instrument approached using ground-based navaids in the default sim (minus ATC…it is a mess).

14 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I always found the default ATC in P3D totally useless. I stopped using it after about a dozen flights and started using add on programs for ATC, winding up with PF3, which I am still using years later in MSFS, I get ATIS, Clearance Ground, Tower, Centers, Approach, Tower and ground with PF3. Over 100 voices, so it never is listening to the same voice pretending they are someone else when you switch frequencies, which really ruins it for me. Also the ATC chatter I get is talking to the actual aircraft flying near me in MSFS, rather than some made up recordings that have no relation to what is flying around me. Pilot Edge is OK, if you want to fly in a small goldfish bowl of an  area of the US. . I like to fly all over the world, so to me  that doesn't work at all. Right now I am approaching Dresden in Germany, can't do that in Pilotedge. 

PF3? Good to know. Tks

6 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

Hey same here! ….mainly because that was the only thing the sim could do until a few weeks ago. Like it or not, GPS based navigation has become the real world de facto standard. In the US VORs are dropping out of service regularly. I don’t know what the timeline is exactly, but the long term plan is to establish minimum operational network in terms of VOR coverage. NDBs have been disappearing for a while, but they still out there. What is Increasingly rare is to find a plane that is actually equipped with an operating ADF radio. 

So yes, I get it. You can currently do full IFR from departure, onto the enroute structure, and instrument approached using ground-based navaids in the default sim (minus ATC…it is a mess).

Yes, the only thing hat could go wrong is a war where they start knocking the satellites out of the sky which could cripple GPS nav for a long time, leaving no backup at all. There are only around 30 satellites for the entire world. 

29 minutes ago, DJJose said:

It depends on your choice of weather generator. When I combined ASP & REX Skyforce, it was the most immersive and realistic weather I ever enjoyed in any sim. MSFS can be beautiful at times but when it comes to generating real world weather, it still needs to be improved.

The 2nd reason is the maturity of the payware add-ons navigation equipment.

Finally, what makes IFR so unique is that you need to create & file and IFR flight plan. You then need to get an ATC clearance, and then you follow ATC instructions throughout a flight.

I find that the default ATC P3D does a much better job at simulating ATC, but if you want the best, then PilotEdge.Net is the best option.

Jose

 

ah ok, yeah I never had weather add-on, so indeed that is something i never experienced

Also on Avsim it is indeed fun to fully work the radio's and navigate.

 

Edited September 12, 20214 yr by bigifooti

22 minutes ago, DJJose said:

PF3? Good to know. Tks

Pilot2ATC I think provides more overall...

I have both and settled on P2A

Just wanted to let you know my opinion

2 hours ago, DJJose said:

Thanks! Do you have that book?

 

Yes I do.  Had the first edition when I completed my training.

2 hours ago, bigifooti said:

And I find the hindrence of weather in MSFS more trickier than P3D. 

An hour ago I got an ATIS from KPDX in MSFS with "Skies Clear"  and an overcast at 1,200 ft.  Love it!  Never had anything like that in any previous sim.  Just saying.  Have also had reported dewpoints higher than the reported temperature.  Bit of egg on face?

 

Edited September 12, 20214 yr by fppilot

41 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Yes, the only thing hat could go wrong is a war where they start knocking the satellites out of the sky which could cripple GPS nav for a long time, leaving no backup at all.

The FAA is keeping a so-called Minimum Operational Network of VORs in service indefinitely as a backup for GPS outages:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/techops/navservices/gbng/vormon/

Without wishing to start THAT conversation again, I must say that so far as at least one satisfied MSFS user is concerned, I doubt that P3D would ever be my first choice for learning of or training in IFR techniques. XP11 is relatively inexpensive ($59.99 vs $199 for P3D) and, out of the box, offers a range of aircraft from C172s (both glass and steam) to an extraordinary B738 freeware add-on for those looking for an introduction to airliners. I have found the glass cockpit G1000 to be very competitive, even with the current version of the excellent Working Title mod that will eventually become part of the base distribution. XP11 is easy to set up and reasonably sparing in its default demands on CPU and GPU resources, so long as one's interest is focused on what's happening in the cockpit and not outside, but even here I'm amazed by how well the scenery gateway has worked to crowdsource global airport resources. The default distro makes available real-time, METAR-based weather--no need for expensive add-ons so long as one is flying on instruments anyway. The sky may not look very good, but who cares if you're IFR?

Having said that, I haven't used XP11 in months, as I find MSFS so much more engaging for all of the reasons noted elsewhere in this forum. Synoptic weather, scenery beyond photoreal, and a staggering variety of freeware add-ons make it clear to me that this is where the future lies. And, for me at least, I feel much more comfortable with the MSFS licensing arrangements than I am with P3D. No doubt others will feel differently. So opinions vary, but I would not recommend to a newbie flight simmer interested in learning about instrument flying an expensive, aging, and complex desktop simulator.

Best wishes to all.

5 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Here are the FAA requirements for IFR flight. I believe many of the default MSFS aircraft have meet these including the steam gauge 172 which I flew IFR for a few weeks with no problems. 

 

Generator or alternator
Rate of turn indicator (turn coordinator or turn & bank indicator)
Altimeter, sensitive (Kollsman window)
Ball (inclinometer, the ‘level’ component of a turn coordinator or turn & bank indicator)
Clock (digital display or sweep second hand)
Attitude indicator
Radios as required for navigation and communication
Directional gyro or heading indicator

Haha the good GRABCARD acronym that every instrument rated pilot remembers haha. Some adds another D at the end for DME above FL240.

Edited September 12, 20214 yr by BR4593