XP12 system requirements

[jarmstro 2,402]

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.en.html

My God! It's a Brave New World! Luckily I don't use Amazon and will never use Amazon.

Edited September 17, 2021 by jarmstro

[Humpty 751]

3 hours ago, jarmstro said:

My God! It's a Brave New World! Luckily I don't use Amazon and will never use Amazon.

Bezos don't like you then , give him your money

[mSparks 2,086]

4 hours ago, jarmstro said:

My God! It's a Brave New World! Luckily I don't use Amazon and will never use Amazon.

its easy to get caught up in the moment of shock and awe of any scandal, even if you only find out about it years later.

But the more important message there is the differing philosophies across the spectrum. - Big kudos to the FSF for actually doing something about software ethics.

That entire argument is raging in the hardware space as well, there is no nonfree hardware alternative at the moment for any device (and the malware in the baseband processors of every mobile phone is nothing short of the stuff pure nightmares are made of).

yeah "words developers use to describe computers". 

gotta say I like it a lot that Laminar are not just mostly on the right side of both arguments, but seemingly very close to winning them.

 

 

[Humpty 751]

11 hours ago, mSparks said:

But thats just it "windows pc" isnt specific. It includes jarmstro that spent a small fortune on his pc over the decades, people who spent €2000 on a windows laptop 3 years ago, and people like one of my friends who is addicted to playing kingdom come deliverance at 5fps on his cheap___ work desktop PC.

The later two will get "xp12 couldnt find a suitable vulkan driver and had to close" if they try and start it, and always will.

ok, you are talking as if you already have XP12

[mSparks 2,086]

8 hours ago, Humpty said:

ok, you are talking as if you already have XP12

been developing for a little too long now.

Once I know how something is being done and who is doing it, it is very quick to have a good mental picture of what it will/should look like.

Unfortunately, after waiting considerably longer to actually get my hands on them, more often than not, the reality never looks as good and is waaaay more buggy than anyone would like.

LR stuff has generally been nice surprises. gtx1070 for those trees blows my mind.

That other one generally exceeded my worst expectations

[mjrhealth 820]

10 hours ago, mSparks said:

malware in the baseband processors of every mobile phone is nothing

Ye no such thing as security anymore, and they wonder why we wont but chinese 5g gear, mind you they not the only one, Viruses dont just run in software anymore, and how do you fight something built into your hardware

[Humpty 751]

13 hours ago, mSparks said:

been developing for a little too long now.

Once I know how something is being done and who is doing it, it is very quick to have a good mental picture of what it will/should look like.

Unfortunately, after waiting considerably longer to actually get my hands on them, more often than not, the reality never looks as good and is waaaay more buggy than anyone would like.

LR stuff has generally been nice surprises. gtx1070 for those trees blows my mind.

That other one generally exceeded my worst expectations

Lol.

 

 

[Gary1124 181]

On 9/14/2021 at 8:50 AM, RXP said:

But who cares honestly if the vast majority of XP12 pilots are not using "the vast majority Windows PCs" but "the simmers average Windows PC" instead?

Sure you are right, there are tons of PC used for gaming or working which might not be offering enough for XP12, and you might be right (it is not the point anyhow to me) that Vulkan on Linux might be more stable, more performant, and more supported than on Windows, nevertheless, I doubt most simmers looking to run XP12 are also considering regularly using it on older specs notebooks. Maybe occasionally, but not regularly?!

At least for what it's worth the latest Navigraph survey is telling 85% of respondents are using an NVidia GPU (might be not representative a population either but I find this closer to our hobby than Steam stats for example), and I'm certain anyone that can run FS2020 on his PC will be able to run XP12 on the same PC as well. Now that the same simmers could run the same XP12 on the same hardware faster and/or better if only they would replace Windows with Linux I don't know, but this is not the main point of the now closed sub-thread in the now closed topic AFAIK.

I have Ryzen 5 3600

32 gig DDR4 3000

RX 580 8 GIG

240 SSD

2TB HDD

500 GIG NVME

Win 10 home

I run p3d v4.5 with

Orbx Global

Orbx NA LC

UTX NA for geography and vector

Orbx buildings

Orbx HD trees

Orbx free airports.

UT LIVE

ASN

Sliders maxed, graphic card low to medium, dynamic reflection off.

30 to 60 fps

I'm sure it will handle XP 12.

It demolishes FSX and XP 11

[mjrhealth 820]

5 hours ago, Gary1124 said:

It demolishes FSX and XP 11

Depends on what "demolish" means to you, for some is max setting at max resolution at 10000FPS, and will not accept anything less.

[mSparks 2,086]

2 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

Depends on what "demolish" means to you, for some is max setting at max resolution at 10000FPS, and will not accept anything less.

2021, "demolish" should mean no frames taking more than 16ms at max settings: This is pretty much what the games industry has settled on.

It doesnt mean that to everybody, mostly because we just had 3 decades of consumer electronics where that wasnt achievable even on the highest end hardware for anything.

Even 10,000fps might not hit that threshold, because it is very common to have frames taking longer than 16ms even at insanely high averages like that (its just much less likely).

That also has interesting parallels with safety critical systems like those used extensively in aviation and medicine: Those ideals are no longer the exclusive domain of hardware systems that cost 6 figures and up.

Edited September 21, 2021 by mSparks

[Gary1124 181]

4 hours ago, mSparks said:

2021, "demolish" should mean no frames taking more than 16ms at max settings: This is pretty much what the games industry has settled on.

It doesnt mean that to everybody, mostly because we just had 3 decades of consumer electronics where that wasnt achievable even on the highest end hardware for anything.

Even 10,000fps might not hit that threshold, because it is very common to have frames taking longer than 16ms even at insanely high averages like that (its just much less likely).

That also has interesting parallels with safety critical systems like those used extensively in aviation and medicine: Those ideals are no longer the exclusive domain of hardware systems that cost 6 figures and up.

My goal is easy for sim performance. An average equal to movie frames and total smoothness. Equal to the human visual cortex. Any frame rate average over 24 fps isn't discernable to human vision. That is what our visual cortex processes sight at. We like to average somewhat higher in our sims because dense scenery regions and or complex aircraft can drag the average down some. To average 100 fps is redundant because you can't tell.

 

Okay. I must edit my assertion from above. I did a check and found out that most researchers have determined our eyes can perceive 30-60 fps. But there is no general concensus. So, sim averages in that range with smoothness are perfectly acceptable.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Gary1124

[CFIJose 5,485]

XP12 is coming soon?

What are they improving from XP11?

Thanks in advance.

[GoranM 3,762]

30 minutes ago, DJJose said:

XP12 is coming soon?

What are they improving from XP11?

Thanks in advance.

Lighting engine.  Scenery.  Environment.  Performance.  Weather.  

 

 

[mSparks 2,086]

1 hour ago, Gary1124 said:

Any frame rate average over 24 fps isn't discernable to human vision

This is what 30fps in VR looks like.....

You dont see in frames, you see movement, its actually movements faster than about 8ms you start getting inaccurate at judging (which requires 240fps), for many things this doesn't matter (e.g. the card animations of online poker), for others (e.g. landing a plane at 300kph or hovering a helicopter, or playing tennis) it is very very important.

Taking the tennis ball example

Novak Djokovic serves at 200mph - 90mps

a Tennis court is 23m long

His serve travels the entire length of the court in 250ms

which at 24fps would take 6 frames, 3 if he only aims halfway down the court.

Old movies (and a fair few games) hack around this by using motion blur.

Edited September 21, 2021 by mSparks

[Humpty 751]

Just now, Gary1124 said:

My goal is easy for sim performance. An average equal to movie frames and total smoothness. Equal to the human visual cortex. Any frame rate average over 24 fps isn't discernable to human vision. That is what our visual cortex processes sight at. We like to average somewhat higher in our sims because dense scenery regions and or complex aircraft can drag the average down some. To average 100 fps is redundant because you can't tell.

 

Okay. I must edit my assertion from above. I did a check and found out that most researchers have determined our eyes can perceive 30-60 fps. But there is no general concensus. So, sim averages in that range with smoothness are perfectly acceptable.

I think 24 fps is the minimum needed for linear motion , below that would be like running any game at 15-18 fps