XP 12 Sneak Peek (Clouds)

[soaring_penguin 431]

One can criticise, one can point to a flaw he found. 
but repeating that same litany in every topic over and over again becomes toxic.

Also I don’t agree that a new sim should run flat out 60 fps on current hardware, wouldn’t it be nicer to leave some headroom for future hardware improvements? This means you would get even a nicer sim a couple of years in the future.

[Gulfstream 416]

I'm a senior software engineer, Aero. Sci grad and a licensed US commercial pilot.

I'm just curious about the technology at this point and seeing where they go.  I am sitting on the sidelines.

I find it unfortunate Enhanced Skyscapes came so late in XP11 with XP12 due to bring this all in natively.

That's a heck of a mod that was really needed many years ago, could have made a fortune I'm sure.  We are all very familiar with the default XP11 cloud system, which has been stuck in the past for far too long.

I'm curious how all these new features are fitting in to the core XP code base.  Especially regarding frame rates.

On paper, they shouldn't impact frames that much, if anything they may even increase frames due to using modern technology and not the 2D billboard sprites everywhere that hammer frames.

[jarmstro 2,405]

On 11/13/2021 at 11:19 AM, soaring_penguin said:

Rka , Greazer and Jamstro, the usual suspects.

Suspects? What am I suspected of?

[mSparks 2,094]

59 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

That's a heck of a mod that was really needed many years ago, could have made a fortune I'm sure.

unfortunately, you can't make a fortune on things before they are technically feasible, you have to wait until they are technically feasible. 

42 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Suspects? What am I suspected of?

Wild speculation here, but I suspect you of flightsimming without a licence.

Edited November 14, 2021 by mSparks

[rka 916]

44 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Suspects? What am I suspected of?

Heresy, obviously 😛

[soaring_penguin 431]

12 minutes ago, rka said:

Heresy, obviously 😛

Not heresy. But you must admit it’s always the same gang that shows up with always the same arguments.

Even if I agree with some of them, it is getting old.

Yes, in X-PLANE 11 lots of the graphics are over their time  (clouds especially ). 
There are concerns about performance, especially if they are adding all these new effects.

But until we get our hands on it, there’s no use of complaining that they s&&& at programming or are worthless as a company. 
If that is how you feel, go ahead and switch to MSFS.
 

XP12 is coming and I for one am looking forward to it. 

[Humpty 751]

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

Wild speculation here, but I suspect you of flightsimming without a licence.

😂

[jarmstro 2,405]

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

Wild speculation here, but I suspect you of flightsimming without a licence.

Not guilty! But I do admit to flightsimming without Linux.😀

[mSparks 2,094]

2 hours ago, soaring_penguin said:

If that is how you feel, go ahead and switch to MSFS.

There is an alternative to that nuclear option while we wait...

Make the most of XP11.

Having ground my forehead through the initial XP11 beta and numerous betas since then, if history is anything to go by, the XP12 beta process is going to be about as fun as being on the wrong side of Marsellus Wallace, a pair of pliers and a blowtorch.

XP11 is good to go, now.

XP12 will be good to go, eventually.

[soaring_penguin 431]

I was suggesting to those who apparently are not happy with how Laminar Research does  things, or how mr Meyer is running his company.

For myself, I am enjoying xp11 a lot, and I am looking forward to the next iteration.

[mSparks 2,094]

6 hours ago, soaring_penguin said:

I was suggesting to those who apparently are not happy with how Laminar Research does  things, or how mr Meyer is running his company.

Yes, and they will end up even more disappointed if they are waiting for XP12 to improve their performance compared to XP11,

Because XP12 is all about taking this windows performance:

and this Linux performance:

 And increasing GPU time on things like volumetric clouds, fancy trees and better lighting/reflections/weather effects.

It will not fix the things they are actually unhappy with (3rd party planes with horrific performance) - because there is nothing LR can really do to help them with that.

Edited November 15, 2021 by mSparks

[Gulfstream 416]

I was just reading through some threads on "another" forum from only a few years ago regarding X-Plane's clouds.

Everyone was mentioning how we need 3D clouds but that LR wasn't listening, and others coming to the defense that this "simply isn't possible" and "would kill every machine's frames".

When it was pointed out at the time, and this was years ago, that other sims do it without an issue, there was all sorts of excuses from the naysayers that "those don't deal with real time weather", "the abrupt transitions are necessary due to the complexities of X-Plane", etc.

What did it take to get clouds like this in XP12?

It took competition, simple as that.

[akita 429]

42 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Because XP12 is all about taking this windows performance:

and this Linux performance:

 And increasing GPU time on things like volumetric clouds, fancy trees and better lighting/reflections/weather effects.

 

But this in not true. If they cull and create forests on the gpu in v12 while now they are cpu heavy tasks, it will reduce cpu time as well. Same goes for water, clouds, reflectiones etc.

They are not adding features on top they are rather replacing current ones

Question is what happens to those extra cpu cycles with the new flight model and other simulation features unrelated to graphics.

14 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

I was just reading through some threads on "another" forum from only a few years ago regarding X-Plane's clouds.

Everyone was mentioning how we need 3D clouds but that LR wasn't listening, and others coming to the defense that this "simply isn't possible" and "would kill every machine's frames".

When it was pointed out at the time, and this was years ago, that other sims do it without an issue, there was all sorts of excuses from the naysayers that "those don't deal with real time weather", "the abrupt transitions are necessary due to the complexities of X-Plane", etc.

What did it take to get clouds like this in XP12?

It took competition, simple as that.

Or priorities, Vulkan & Metal. I joined in 11.50 but blogs go back to about 3 years earlier.

Edited November 15, 2021 by akita

[mSparks 2,094]

27 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

that other sims do it without an issue

The first sim to do it was Ace Combat 7 - released in Jan 2019

The second was P3D, released in April 2020

MSFS released in August 2020, but is still really a beta with no realistic aircraft

The 3rd was xEnviro for Xplane 11 Vulkan in November 2020

The 4rd was DCS 2.7 released in April 2021 (who still don't have a vulkan version btw)

The 5th was Enhanced Skyscapes for Xplane 11 released in Sept 2021

15 minutes ago, akita said:

But this in not true. If they cull and create forests on the gpu in v12 while now they are cpu heavy tasks, it will reduce cpu time as well. Same goes for water, clouds, reflectiones etc.

They are not adding features on top they are rather replacing current ones

Question is what happens to those extra cpu cycles with the new flight model and other simulation features unrelated to graphics.

Precisely why I chose that view, because the CPU is not being used on them.

Edited November 15, 2021 by mSparks

[RXP 2,338]

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

The first sim to do it was Ace Combat 7 - released in Jan 2019

Prior to this was at least FSW using the Simul libs, the same ones now used in P3D5.

1 hour ago, Gulfstream said:

What did it take to get clouds like this in XP12?

It took competition, simple as that.

It might be, but given my limited knowledge of these things, I'd speculate the main reason volumetric rendering of cloud didn't occur prior XP12 was unrelated.

Instead, I'd bet this was more a combination of Dev & Time resources already committed on refactoring entirely the underlying rendering engine architecture to cope with modern constructs imposed by VK as opposed to "managed" constructs imposed by OGL. It would have therefore made no sense to invest time in doing volumetric clouds prior finishing the refactoring first.

The same reasoning goes for the GPU based water waves already implemented a long time ago in XP11 code base but never released to the public, and many other things "rendering" related in the X-Plane product line.

In any case and whatever the reasons, the fact they are doing this with XP12 is just good news anyways!