22 minutes ago, mSparks said:

 

Anyone gonna give decent odds for XP12 Beta ruining XP11?

It ruined MSFS 😁

Just imagine the panic MS and Asobo will be in when they finally realize they're going out of business as soon as XP12 is released. They are probably already negotiating with Saint Austin to buy LR in order to shut it down.

On 11/17/2021 at 3:13 PM, RXP said:

I believe we would be very hypocritical as simmers to say we don't care much about graphics and eye candy. We do,

And yet for eighteen months I have been called a troll, vilified and banned from forums for saying just that. 😀. But I've been proved right! A home sim is not an engineering tool.

Edited November 18, 20214 yr by jarmstro

21 minutes ago, rka said:

Just imagine the panic MS and Asobo will be in when they finally realize they're going out of business as soon as XP12 is released. They are probably already negotiating with Saint Austin to buy LR in order to shut it down.

Naah, MS has a vast market who is not targeted by the XP desktop version and therefore is not menaced by it. Surely they're not going out of business! 😎

2 hours ago, Murmur said:

MS has a vast market who is not targeted by the XP desktop version

Dunno about everyone else, but I actually expect XP12 + Steam Deck will have a pretty significant impact on MSFS + XBOX sales, especially if you can get PSVR2 running on it similar to I have PSVR on XP11.

Edited November 18, 20214 yr by mSparks

3 hours ago, jarmstro said:

And yet for eighteen months I have been called a troll, vilified and banned from forums for saying just that. 😀. But I've been proved right! A home sim is not an engineering tool.

You've just forgotten the 2nd half of my sentence though, which is equally important!

Quote

I believe we would be very hypocritical as simmers to say we don't care much about graphics and eye candy. We do [...] It doesn't need to be visual effects you'd expect in a blockbuster movie, but it needs to be "more believable" nonetheless.

Meaning for example: volumetric clouds looking like a cumulus is eye candy for the sake of it only (blockbuster movie style), but volumetric clouds depicting an actual moisture/temp condition is believable (XP12 aviation centric style.. ;-)

 

3 hours ago, jarmstro said:

But I've been proved right!

🥱

  

3 hours ago, jarmstro said:

A home sim is not an engineering tool.

You're absolutely right ... for the ones who don't care about flight simulation, but only about playing.

For the others it is. There are a lot of real pilots out there for whom the Microsoft simulators (by far) aren't realistic enough. Proof: the autobiography of Bruce Dickinson, lead singer of Iron Maiden. He started flying in the very early 90ies, is now a certified 747 pilot and aviation entrepreneur.

Translation:

Passion for flight

During the vacation in Florida I took a phone and dialed a number. Trial lesson with a flight instructor, 35 Dollars. The Microsoft flight simulator by far wasn't realistic enough for me.

2 hours ago, uwespeed said:

During the vacation in Florida I took a phone and dialed a number. Trial lesson with a flight instructor, 35 Dollars. The Microsoft flight simulator by far wasn't realistic enough for me.

Well, he would have said the same about X-Plane. The line is blurring with VR and full-motion chairs for home-use, but no simulator comes close to actual flying.

(Unless one possesses a healthy dose of imagination and suspension of disbelief to use what is there on a screen or within the VR headset to get immersed as if there in reality for he moment, but this seems to be a skill long lost for a lot of people. Just remember how people had all the fun in the world staring at simple black and white vectors while nowadays even a simplisticlly lit cloud seems to be the end of the virtual world.)

7 hours ago, jarmstro said:

And yet for eighteen months I have been called a troll, vilified and banned from forums for saying just that. 😀. But I've been proved right! A home sim is not an engineering tool.

Take a step back and look at what you were saying again though.

Its one thing to say these things are "nice to haves", something completely different to say they are "must haves".

So much of the tension that erupts exists there.

Absolutely no one is saying they dont want nice trees, volumetric clouds and all the other "omg I want that in my life" things @Murmur just listed, even though there is a vocal minority that barely care about them even a little.

But its absolutely ridiculous to say that without them flightsim, xplane and laminar are all worthless junk - especially when you compare XP11 with

 

What does XP12 have over MSFS currently?  And vice versa?

1 hour ago, Noel said:

What does XP12 have over MSFS currently?  And vice versa?

Only the Laminar devs could answer that - as no one else has access to XP12 yet.

3 hours ago, Noel said:

What does XP12 have over MSFS currently?  And vice versa?

From what we know now, XP12 will be mostly a graphical update, but will not have ortho and will not have photogrammetry.

I don't know why people start with this nonsense of having stuff the other sim has ? Don't we get it that both developers have probably a difference of Billions.

Hopefully we will be still able to use Ortho4xp. 

Yeah don't mind PG stuff but i don't think it would be a good choice for a low flying aircraft especially helis , as from what i have seen low level PG is bad ? But please do correct if I am wrong , as I don't own MFS anymore hence can't say.

2 minutes ago, Humpty said:

Yeah don't mind PG stuff but i don't think it would be a good choice for a low flying aircraft especially helis , as from what i have seen low level PG is bad ? But please do correct if I am wrong , as I don't own MFS anymore hence can't say.

It is absolutely a great choice and it looks absolutely awesome, not only when flying low and slow. The amount of visual realism this brings cannot be overestimated IMO.

PG being a bad thing is a story that is only being told on XP campfires. Sorry.

8 minutes ago, rka said:

It is absolutely a great choice and it looks absolutely awesome, not only when flying low and slow. The amount of visual realism this brings cannot be overestimated IMO.

PG being a bad thing is a story that is only being told on XP campfires. Sorry.

It's def a good choice to have when it can create real world data I agree. 

I do remember it not being good  , maybe thats changed ?