21 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Because the gravity is low.

 

How would living in a low gravity situation affect your health?  There was an article just this week about astronaut's eyes.  He went up wo the International Space Station with 20/20 vision.  When he came back it was 20/100.  It was caused by fluid buildup around the eyes in a low gravity situation.

They have developed a special sleeping bag for astronauts that will equalize the fluids in the body while they are sleeping.

I wonder what else happens to your body in a low gravity environment over a long term.

Noel

7 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

It doesn't ignore the problems on Earth, many of the satellites in orbit now are monitoring the planet and helping to gather further science in regard to the threat of climate change.  

And no its not an extravagance, its as valuable technology. Try telling the military, the merchant navy, airliners, private citizens in their boats, ambulances, the police, you on a weekend trip, that GPS is now offline because Noel doesn't like spaceflight and many of you can drown at sea.  🙄

Valuable remote sensing makes up one third of all satellites.

Space helps connect the remaining 49% of the world without connectivity. And lack of connectivity costs lives. 

Almost all SDG's (Sustainable Development Goals) benefit from space technology.

Over 100 satellites have been launched just to monitor our atmosphere.

Solar energy forecast quality boosted 30% by space technology

Space tech provides spatial information regarding food production precision irrigation and farming techniques.

Earth observation and global positioning tools have been developed to display real time cartography of infectious disease locations.

Satellites help stop illegal logging illegal fishing and illegal wildlife trade.

I could go on all day but I'll leave it there.

And finally, if you'd like to google the benefits that have come from the Apollo program you will be very surprised.

So no, its not an extravagance and its not a "bit of fun" for billionaires. Its a vital industry. 

I'm sure the shivering guy without a place to live wishing he had a dollar so he could buy a bowl of hot soup would be extremely interested in this.

I am ten days away from my 88th birthday.  As an experiment beginning tomorrow morning I am going off line for ten days.  I am limiting myself to 2 hours of television a night watching an old movie or a couple of old sitcoms..  No internet at all.  I will fly my simulator but not look for or download new scenery or airplanes.  I'll go to the market two blocks away and buy a newspaper instead of watching TV or internet news.  My iPhone will only be used as an ordinary telephone.  That's all I ever use it for anyway.  I never carry it around with me when I go out.  It's a virgin since it's never been in my hip pocket.  I've not yet been assimilated into the iPhone continuum.  And I'll be reading a lot.

When they put up all the wonderful satellites Martin drools over will we still be able to see the night sky?

Noel 

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by birdguy

2 hours ago, dmwalker said:

Assuming it is successful, II wonder how they would scale that up to deflect a planet-killer. It wouldn't just be to use a bigger spacecraft but maybe a combination of bigger and faster.

 

That's the thing. All very well nudging a mini asteroid the size of  a fridge. Whole different ball game with a mega planet killer. I'm not sure an impactor would work, you would have to use nukes. It used to be said that nuking a planet killer would be just as bad because you would just make lots of mini asteroids. Recently though, they have determined that if it was nuked far enough away from the planet the debris would spread out. Again you would require lots of warning though and thus detection many years in advance. 

Another possibility is detonating a nuke a fair distance away and allowing the shockwave to nudge it of trajectory. And yes, there is still a shockwave from a nuke in the vacuum of space. 

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

How would living in a low gravity situation affect your health?  There was an article just this week about astronaut's eyes.  He went up wo the International Space Station with 20/20 vision.  When he came back it was 20/100.  It was caused by fluid buildup around the eyes in a low gravity situation.

They have developed a special sleeping bag for astronauts that will equalize the fluids in the body while they are sleeping.

I wonder what else happens to your body in a low gravity environment over a long term.

Noel

 

Mars has 38% of the gravity of this planet. So not as bad as being say on the ISS. But yes, over the very long term it MIGHT have health implications. I say might, because at this point we don't know if it will or won't. I suspect that with sufficient physical activity it wont be a huge issue. Its one of the things that will be researched when we get there. 

Adaption will take place in time of course. 

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by martin-w

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

I'm sure the shivering guy without a place to live wishing he had a dollar so he could buy a bowl of hot soup would be extremely interested in this.

 

The shivering guy without a place to live isn't there because a private company is building a spaceship or because NASA are doing the same. Its estimated that to end homelessness in the US it would take 20 billion. Sounds like a lot, but then Americans waste 19 billion  on appliances they can't be  bother to unplug, 35 billion building their biceps at the gym and 719 billion on keeping the military industrial complex happy. Most of that money to end homelessness would be ploughed back by not having to spend 36,000 dollars for each person that's homeless, on crisis services, jails, hospitals, and emergency departments. 

As I said, its pollical. Nothing to do with Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos or Richard Branson stealing your dosh. 

 

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

When they put up all the wonderful satellites Martin drools over will we still be able to see the night sky?

 

I'm not drooling over them. And its not about when, they are up there now. You are benefitting from them now in many ways you seem utterly unaware of. 

 

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

As an experiment beginning tomorrow morning I am going off line for ten days.  I am limiting myself to 2 hours of television a night watching an old movie or a couple of old sitcoms..  No internet at all. 

 

I'm not sure why or what you hope to achieve but thank god, I was getting close to requiring therapy. 😌

Most food delivery to stores is via the internet now, so I presume you will be digging up your carrots out of the garden? And of course the companies that provide you with power and water rely on the internet too in many ways, so will you be drinking out of a puddle and riding a bike attached to a dynamo for power? And any medical services you require will require the internet, doctors appointments, your medical records and drugs you take... but then I guess your wife could cook up a handy prescription made from herbs and magical garden plants. It works for the Chinese. 😁

Have a cat point for giving me a break for ten days: 😼

The above is in jest... but you can have the cat point. 😉

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by martin-w

You might be surprised at this Martin but my primary care doctor still has all of your records in a folder and hand writes everything down.  I've been seeing him for over a decade now and he's on my second folder.

There are no computers in the examining rooms.  But by law after he closes he has to transcribe those records onto a computer in his office.

What I hope to achieve is a vacation from whiz-bang technology and be reminded of how things were in pre-internet days before they had social networking and an iPhone in every hip pocket or purse.  I think that's what bothers me the most.   Cell phones.  I see people eating in a restaurant and talking to their friend the phone rings and all of a sudden the friend becomes a second class friend when the person with the phone cuts off the conversation and says, "I gotta take this."  I think that is so rude.  There's a restaurant I was in once in Florida.  Behind the hostess counter were a bunch of boxes on the wall.  They did not allow cell phones in the dining room.  You had the check them when you entered the restaurant.  BTW, when was the last time you saw a phone booth?

 I live on a very small planet...my house and my back and side yards.  Once I leave the front door I'm on another planet far advanced from mine.  and when I'm out there I can't wait to get back home where I'm more comfortable.

My ten days starts tomorrow morning and ends on Christmas morning.  Then I start pestering Martin again.

Noel

36 minutes ago, martin-w said:

I'm not sure why or what you hope to achieve but thank god, I was getting close to requiring therapy.

I think that's his way of saying he's going to miss you.

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

The shivering guy without a place to live isn't there because a private company is building a spaceship or because NASA are doing the same. Its estimated that to end homelessness in the US it would take 20 billion. Sounds like a lot, but then Americans waste 19 billion  on appliances they can't be  bother to unplug, 35 billion building their biceps at the gym and 719 billion on keeping the military industrial complex happy. Most of that money to end homelessness would be ploughed back by not having to spend 36,000 dollars for each person that's homeless, on crisis services, jails, hospitals, and emergency departments. 

As I said, its pollical. Nothing to do with Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos or Richard Branson stealing your dosh. 

Homelessness is very much a problem with society's attitudes, and not a lack of resources. John Oliver had some great points in one of his latest episodes. Far too many people would rather spend money on sweeping the homeless issue under the rug and out of sight, rather than truly help them. That isn't Elon's fault.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/nov/01/john-oliver-homelessness-us

Stopping investment in space exploration isn't going to change that at all.

14 hours ago, birdguy said:

You might be surprised at this Martin but my primary care doctor still has all of your records in a folder and hand writes everything down.  I've been seeing him for over a decade now and he's on my second folder.

 

And when a hospital requires your records what do they do, speed down to Roswell to your doctor and zoom them back to the hospital in a Bugatti Veyron? Or do they use the internet. 

But when you get to the pharmacy for your medication the internet is fully engaged. And when the drugs are delivered to the pharmacy the internet is fully engaged. And when the drugs are manufactured the internet is fully engaged.

 

14 hours ago, birdguy said:

I see people eating in a restaurant and talking to their friend the phone rings and all of a sudden the friend becomes a second class friend

 

I cant remember ever seeing that. 

 

14 hours ago, birdguy said:

BTW, when was the last time you saw a phone booth?

 

Well they aren't really needed are they, but in the UK they are still in place where mobile phone coverage is bad where there's a high accident rate.

 

14 hours ago, birdguy said:

Then I start pestering Martin again.

 

With counterarguments or just by repeating the same stuff? 😝

 

Edited December 16, 20214 yr by martin-w

18 hours ago, martin-w said:

Elon wont be going. He'll be dead by then. And its not his domicile. He's just perfecting the tech to get us there and the Moon and orbit cheaper and cleaner. 

Unless we get our collective acts together we'll all be dead by then. The chance of us getting hit by a planet-killer asteroid are nearly non-existent compared to the certainty of killing the planet by global warming. 

2 hours ago, W2DR said:

Unless we get our collective acts together we'll all be dead by then. 

 

Nope, highly unlikely,  however, we are doing both simultaneously. We are trying to mitigate shorter term threats now while simultaneously preparing for long term existential threats. 

 

2 hours ago, W2DR said:

The chance of us getting hit by a planet-killer asteroid are nearly non-existent compared to the certainty of killing the planet by global warming. 

 

Well not exactly killing the planet. The planet will be just fine. Us and some other species are under threat from climate change, yes.

Its difficult to predict how bad climate change would have to be, and over what time period,  to wipe out humans totally and pose a 100% existential threat. A Mars colony is predicted by 2050 and  the entire human race won't be wiped out by climate change by 2050, in just 30 years. So by 2050, we could well have an example of human consciousness on an another world in the solar system, thus avoiding any existential threat from climate change.

Even if we predict that a Mars colony or a colony anywhere else in the solar system, including the Moon, wont be around for 60 or 90 years, that still isn't sufficient time for climate change to wipe out every human on the planet. However, the longer we delay having a presence elsewhere in the solar system the more chance that climate change or some other threat will render such an endeavour harder to achieve. Hence, the quicker the better. 

Don't be obsessed with asteroids, there are lots of existential threats. Plus some we haven't even considered yet. 

 

Edit: Actually Elon might not be dead by then. He's 50 I recall, so we could have a Mars and/or Moon colony by the time he's 80. 

 

 

Edited December 16, 20214 yr by martin-w

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

And when a hospital requires your records what do they do, speed down to Roswell to your doctor and zoom them back to the hospital in a Bugatti Veyron? Or do they use the internet. 

But when you get to the pharmacy for your medication the internet is fully engaged. And when the drugs are delivered to the pharmacy the internet is fully engaged. And when the drugs are manufactured the internet is fully engaged.

The other great point to add is that electronic records eliminate transcription and legibility mistakes, as well as allowing for automated validation that the dose is actually accurate and not harmful or lethal. Coming from a family of physicians, I would hate for my life and health to depend on being able to comprehend their handwriting!

Cheers!

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

Actually Elon might not be dead by then. He's 50 I recall, so we could have a Mars and/or Moon colony by the time he's 80

I don't think any billionaires will be going until, maybe, 100 years after the first colonisation because they don't have any useful, practical skills.

 

58 minutes ago, Luke said:

I would hate for my life and health to depend on being able to comprehend their handwriting!

Sometimes, when I struggle to read my own handwriting, I wonder if I should have become a doctor.

“If you’re young, it’s just possible that we will be taking our first steps on near-Earth asteroids and Mars during your lifetime. To spread out to the moons of the Jovian planets and the Kuiper Comet Belt will take many generations more. The Oort Cloud will require much longer still. By the time we’re ready to settle even the nearest other planetary systems, we will have changed. The simple passage of so many generations will have changed us. The different circumstances we will be living under will have changed us. Prostheses and genetic engineering will have changed us. Necessity will have changed us. We’re an adaptable species.
It will not be we who reach Alpha Centauri and the other nearby stars. It will be a species very like us, but with more of our strengths and fewer of our weaknesses, a species returned to circumstances more like those for which it was originally evolved, more confident, farseeing, capable, and prudent—the sorts of beings we would want to represent us in a Universe that, for all we know, is filled with species much older, much
more powerful, and very different.
The vast distances that separate the stars are providential. Beings and worlds are quarantined from one another. The quarantine is lifted only for those with sufficient self-knowledge and judgment to have safely traveled from star to star.”

 

Carl Sagan