>You, obviously, do not understand that a developer that requires an >installation procedure that differs from what is stated in its own >multi-page installation guide should let customers know IN ADVANCE if >the end result is a crashed FSX installation that will not start in >Vista.I obviously understand this but, since, as I've stated already, I'm not part of Cloud9, the only thing I can do is to HELP users, something that is not even required, because support should be done by Cloud9, but since I CAN offer help on Cloud9 forum (because there I'm able to post information), I try to give it when possible, and of course what I'm getting back are unfounded accusations of "attacking" customers.I can SUGGEST to Cloud9 to improve their web site, and putting a Vista page, perhaps. And maybe updating their manuals. This suggestion IS duly noted, but doesn't have anything to do with the fact that KMCO DOES runs in Vista, opposite to what the OP warning said, and that Cloud9 forum DID offer solutions when inquired.

Waaaaaaaaow!!Why are people so agressive?Relax guys :--))))-I don't belong to Cloud9's team :-)-I get no royalties from Coud9 :-)-Virtualli is not my brother in law :-)I know Alberto Sangalli (Cloud9's manager) for years now and all I can say is that he is a wonderful guy, a real gentleman, and Cloud9 always provided very quick and professional support to their customers as well as very nice addons.Very few companies provide "try before you buy" 100% functional addons and this is a proof of loyalty towards their customers.Just have a look at their forum and you will see that most of the guys there are very happy with the products and the support.just my 2 cents.Best regards,David Roch

David,I previously thanked you for your first response and I meant that. I posted a warning in good faith, based upon my frustrating experience. I believed then and believe now that Cloud9 should tell people in advance of any non-standard installation procedure for Vista. If the response had been yours alone, I would have tried the workaround and posted my experience and probably purchased the software. Instead, there were nasty responses from someone affiliated with Cloud9. Your friends at Cloud9 might be great guys, but the responses on this forum did not represent those characteristics. After doing a little research on the forums regarding Cloud9, I quickly learned that I am not the only person who reached the same conclusion. Most FS addon vendors I have dealt with have been fantastic. I will give them my business, not Cloud9.

>After doing a little research on the forums>regarding Cloud9, I quickly learned that I am not the only>person who reached the same conclusion. Most FS addon vendors>I have dealt with have been fantastic. I will give them my>business, not Cloud9.There are several things that need to be taken into consideration:1) English is not your perceived antagonist's native language. While obviously articulate, it is without doubt pedestrian and pedantic, and devoid of the nuances of polite circumlocution... ;)2) "Virtuali" is to Cloud9 as Honeywell is to any aircraft manufacturer. He simply supplies a tool that Cloud9 uses under license. To "condemn" Cloud9 for this would be as irrational as condeming Cessna because you have a beef with a Honeywell representative.

>1) English is not your perceived antagonist's native language.>While obviously articulate, it is without doubt pedestrian and>pedantic, and devoid of the nuances of polite>circumlocution... ;)That's the main problem we non-english speakers must constantly face. Although we might be able to communicate something, it's very difficult to asses how it "sounds", from the politeness point of view.I might lead into thinking that someone is less than 100% polite in Italian, but simply looking at the position of a comma, for example...so I guess the same holds true for English.Has anyone noticed that often are the non-US/UK companies (think of Wilco or Captain Sim) that are labeled for not being polite ?

If you honestly need to have more security features BUILT IN to an OS to feel that it is "improved", something else needs fixing besides the os. I will not, and would not purchase a new OS that has added "security" features that have to be turned off in order to use certain programs. I like my os lean and mean, not bloated and "secure."Danon O.

Hi Craig,please be aware that virtuali did not "attack" you but simply mentioned some mistakes you obviously made and offered a bit of criticism about your attitude. Your "warning" definitely was premature since you did not know what you were talking about. Now it seems, you found the help you needed. That is wonderful. But why didn't you look for help before shouting out this "warning"?kind regardsRalph

Could we lplease get a lock on this useles developer bassing topic?I mean the guy can't even search a forum or read a FAQ. How usefull can his suggestions be?My personal experience with Cloud9 is that they have irritating protection software (who hasn't I also hate the Flight1 wrapper now I've switched some e-mail adresses and credit cards) but they do support it promptly and it enables them to give you some demo time with the product so al in all its not that bad.

This is new to me. I've used the Flight1 wrapper for dozens of purchases and never had a problem (well, once, when I was purchasing about 12 products at once (one after the other), I got double charged on a few of them, but they promptly fixed it after a quick email exchange). In fact it's my preferred method of purchase.What sorts of problems have people had? And why would you change email and CC?ThomasP.S. I have nothing to do with F1, and none of their employees are my relatives as far as I know.[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

I've never had a issue with Cloud9 reinstalls - or with the Flight1 wrapper. They have both worked fine for me, with about two reinstalls per product since installing FSX last year.

>Hi Craig,>>please be aware that virtuali did not "attack" you but simply>mentioned some mistakes you obviously made and offered a bit>of criticism about your attitude. Your "warning" definitely>was premature since you did not know what you were talking>about. Now it seems, you found the help you needed. That is>wonderful. But why didn't you look for help before shouting>out this "warning"?>>kind regards>>RalphI for one appreciate the warning. How else would I have known of any conflicts regarding this scenery, and Vista, except with a visit to Cloud9's forum AFTER the purchase was already made? My thoughts would be ..well gee it would have been nice to know of this problem before I bought this $20+ headache! Also I dont believe it is an unreasonable expectation to just be able to install a product; per its directions and have it operate as stated, and not have to search through forums for a solution to your problem , after already being frustrated by your software experience!This is by no means a bash on Cloud9 on my part, as I own a few of their addons and am quite pleased with them. I am not saying Cloud9 fits this bill ,maybe..maybe not. But I am growing frustrated with this pay for beta concept many Software developers all across the board have adopted!Chris

>>That's the main problem we non-english speakers must>constantly face. Although we might be able to communicate>something, it's very difficult to asses how it "sounds", from>the politeness point of view.>Yes I can see that. Also, sometimes subtle humor is not picked up by non-native speakers. Pretty interesting.But, rejoice. I only wish I could speak Italian. That would be very neat. Then I could go skiing in the Trentino sometime, and converse with the locals.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

>That's the main problem we non-english speakers must>constantly face. Although we might be able to communicate>something, it's very difficult to asses how it "sounds", from>the politeness point of view.The reverse is true as well. I once was part of a "task group" charged with translating the writings of our Community's Founder, Fr. Justin Russillio into English.Quite frankly, even with six of the twelve members of the "task group" being native Italians, there were some passages that quite literally could NOT be translated into any form of comprehensible English!There were even a few, which translated literally, would have been quite obscene... yet were quite benign and poetic in Italian... *:-*

>I for one appreciate the warning. How else would I have known>of any conflicts regarding this scenery, and Vista, except>with a visit to Cloud9's forum AFTER the purchase was already>made? My thoughts would be ..well gee it would have been nice>to know of this problem before I bought this $20+ headache!Since you could not possibly purchase the product until it WAS installed, this is a "red herring" argument.1) You downoad a demo2) You cannot install it3) Ergo, you cannot "purchase it"...- so, if you're still interested -4) You go to the forum5) Read the instructions to get it working in Vista6) You get it working finallyNow you decide whether to purchase or not.Where's the beef?

> I've purchased FS products with more than one card; kinda>tough to remember what card you used 12 months later. . .Which is - of course - the very reason Flight1's Customer Service page will send you a complete list of all products ever purchased, complete with "order number" and "security code."It takes less than 30 seconds to retrieve ALL of this information, delivered directly to your CURRENT email address. ;)