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Bert Pieke

2-D Cockpit View Bug in SP1?

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There seems to be a bug with this build...could you please confirm or deny?I use 2-D cockpits and when flying I often press the W key to hide all the instrument panels, then use the numeric keypad arrow buttons with Numlock turned on to look around (ex: behind me) when I am flying (ex: taking off, to get a nice view of the runway). This used to work but now I just see the 2-D plane cockpit itself, even when no instrument panels are showing (hidden with the W key).Is there a workaround for this? I uninstalled the patch and it started working again. I reinstalled the patch and it stopped working again. So, please advise.It does seem to be a patch issue, which is a shame, because except for increased blurries, the patch does seem to make the game run smoother.

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Yes me too, I have found it quite annoying, especially when flying over a nice area and when trying to look straight down you get a very nice pic of the seat cushion. I have tried searching for a fix but nothing yet....see own aircraft= 0 doesnt work, panel off in cockpit camera thingy doesnt work. It looks like it goes to virtual cokpit mode when you try and switch to anything other than fwd. Any advice guys.Also have the blurries problem now too.Athlon 64 3400+7600gs 512mb2 gig ramGary

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Gentlemen,I just found a fix for this 2D problem....solved by guru Luciano Napolitano of WidevieW fame.....here is a link to his discovery and if you use Method 1.....all will be well in your world!http://www.wideview.it/fsx_sp1.htm Regards,Cap'n Tarmack>Have the same issue.

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Hey Cap'n Thanks for the Link.With more people turning to cockpit and small desktop simulators requiring complete outside views, I have no idea why aces would go down that road. Maybe it was just an oversight but the beta team should have picked that one up right away....Shame on them.Gary

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This might work for those folks who want no virtual cockpit at all, ever.. In my case I use the virtual cockpit, a lot, but wouldstill like to have the option to switch to the 2d cockpit and theopen view we've had for umpteen releases of MSFS !

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Hi all.There is a fix that adds a new menu item to the Cockpit view. It would be called Landscape.You have to edit the Camers.cfg file.First, backup the FSX Cameras.cfg as Cameras.cfg.origNow edit the Cameras.cfg by adding a view:[CameraDefinition.012]Title = LandscapeGuid = {C11E251E-9892-43ad-8E4A-70FA6C3C26BA}Description = A landscape view.Origin = CenterShowPanel = NoSnapPbhAdjust = OrdinalSnapPbhReturn = YesPanPbhAdjust = OrdinalPanPbhReturn = YesTrack = NoneShowAxis = FrontOnlyAllowZoom = NoInitialZoom = 1.0SmoothZoomTime = 2.0ShowWeather = YesXyzAdjust = YesInitialXyz=0.0, 0.0, -10.0ShowLensFlare=NoCategory = CockpitNow save this, and delete the Camera.cfg in your "C:Documents and SettingsYourNameApplication DataMicrosoftFSX" folder.FSX will rebuild that CFG file to this location, and it will have a ew entry in the ViewCockpit menu. Landscape.The view is 10 meters below the actual pilot's seat, and doesn't show any of the aircraft.Dick

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Gary,You are more than welcome for the workaround....and my info has it that the beta team had NO idea of this change....it was NOT in Beta4 of the SP1....it only appeared when SP1 was released.It would be nice to hear of any good reason that they did this.Cap'n Tarmack>Hey Cap'n Thanks for the Link.>>With more people turning to cockpit and small desktop>simulators requiring complete outside views, I have no idea>why aces would go down that road. Maybe it was just an>oversight but the beta team should have picked that one up>right away....Shame on them.>>Gary

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To me, not having a public beta program is a warning sign. Why would anybody, in this day and age, not have a public beta program? I might understand for totally new and secret products or technologies...but for a service pack?These dudes clearly think they know what they are doing, but honestly breaking a major piece of functionality like this which has worked for all versions of FS that I can remember (at least since version 5, or shall I say "V" in Roman numerals), on top of the state of the RTM build, is really something to be ashamed of.

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I was just trying to make a point about the closed beta.

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It would be nice to hear of any good reason that they did this.Half of beta testing is figuring out what got broken by the fixes.I build software installs in a major world wide corporation for a living.Right now we're running a closed beta with Internet Explorer 7 and it's interaction with company developed HR and payroll applications. Every time we change the IE build because some group needs a change and different functionality - we break somebody else who was working fine.One of our company fixes for IE7 broke a java based replacement for AFCAD for FSX. I don't think I can spend company time and money trying to fix that one.I'm sure Aces/MS thought they had everything ready they could fix on a blown budget and timeline. A final tweaks in the final build had this unintended consequence.FSX is an incredibly complex program - my experiences with other MS products at work tells me that one change in one area can have a totally unexpected, unrelated consequence in a completely different section of the program.The actual bug on this was probably that the VC did not display in the original FSX release.But as noted below - a camera definition / configuration fixes the issue.

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Well Dick,That is indeed the beginning of a solution.. thank you!Clearly it is time that I (and some others) begin to understand the camera system in FSX. If this is possible, it might be equally possible to recreate what we had in the non SP1 version. Without having to navigate to some special view... Thanks again for showing the way, now I'm going to try to eliminate the many camera positions I do not use, and make the ones I do use easy to switch to.I'm still trying to figure out when to use the "s", the "a", and the "w" keys.. : - )Thanks again, this Landscape view is pretty nice in it's own right, especially during take-off..

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>Now save this, and delete the Camera.cfg in your "C:Documents>and >SettingsYourNameApplication DataMicrosoftFSX" folder.>>FSX will rebuild that CFG file to this location, and it will>have a ew entry in the ViewCockpit menu. Landscape.Thanks, Rick. I was going to do this myself, but you've just saved me the trouble... ;)BTW, there's no need to do all that faffing around...Just open the existing camera.cfg file in notepad and tack your entry at the very bottom. Save the file and your done! ;)

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>To me, not having a public beta program is a warning sign.>Why would anybody, in this day and age, not have a public beta>program? I might understand for totally new and secret>products or technologies...but for a service pack?The reasons for a "closed beta" are legion, but have less to do with "secrecy" and a LOT more to do with rigorous, controlled, detailed and repetitive testing.Any "beta tester" who cannot devote at least five to ten HOURS every day to the process simply isn't worth having onboard. To be perfectly blunt, "beta testing" isn't a walk in the park. In many ways, it's the intellectual equivalent of digging ditches! :-bang

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now in 2D cockpit my shift+backspace and cntl+enter keys for view up/down dont work anymore. Can someone verify please?

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There is no cost associated with having an open beta program, other than the bandwidth fees. Clearly they already have people who put rigorous testing hours in. What does it matter if there are additional folk who put in less hours each day, but can discover other issues with their unorthodox methods? What do you care if they do not?You make it sound like the moment the beta program is made open, people will stop doing any kind of official testing on it, just because its an open beta; and that's an unjustified assertion.Also Phil said on his blog that an open beta would "fracture" the community, which is also an exaggeration at best. A beta is a beta and people know its not ready yet. But a beta is a good way for you to show progress being made and raise the spirits of the community. Its also a way to ease in acceptance of changes, and buy more time for a mature release.Finally, there was a reply on Phil's blog post, trying to "educate" the general public about why its "so hard" to test software, and how "proper training" etc. is required. That is basically a bunch of bovine excrement, if you'll pardon the expression. Look at all the beta's Microsoft has run - yes the same company that makes FSX - Vista, for one. Gobs and gobs of Microsoft software have had open beta programs for extensive periods of time, accessible to all sorts of qualified *and* unqualified individuals. An operating system is as complex as it gets, so if they were able to open Vista up, there is absolutely no rational justification to keep FSX locked down.

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The standard keys in FSX are shift-Q and ctrl-shift-Q... hold them down until the view changes.Shift-enter and shift-backspace were FS9 conventions. I assume you can change the assignments on the alt/options/settings/controls page.

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Hi Dick! I have done what you precise, but I haven't this new view and also, now the key "w" is not functionning. Can you help me please? Many thanks

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This is completely wrong. In an open beta, you will have no control over how people submit problems (how many people do you know who can follow directions to the letter), no control over what computer configurations people have and a million other variables. Given this, the data you get back will be largely junk.Not only that, then you need to hire more people to sift through and interpret all the reports that come back, adding a huge cost to the program.Then you also get people testing the problem who are clueless on how to use it/make it work. You'll get tons of reports of "bugs" that are working as designed.I could think of a million other problems with the concept.I just don't see how an open beta could work effectively.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

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Nope, these still work by default in all my installations. While it may be clear to you, it sounds to me like you are talking about different things. The keys you describe change the view Angle on my system. He's changing the eye Position (up/down, angle stays the same). Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

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5-10...for MS beta you mean?I assume you don't mean addon beta testing right?5-10...that's a full time job hahah!

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Is there a way to manually delete the cockpit textures that appear in 2D mode?That could be a temporary solution in giving us back the unobstructed view in all directions in 2D view when the panel is toggled off. That could be a slightly better solution than moving the viewpoint to remove the obstruction. And that's temporary, until ACES fixes this problem.

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I believe you are looking at the VC cockpit textures, so removing them is not really an option... unless you do not want a virtual cockpit at all..

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