>I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. If my memory serves me>correctly all versions from at least FS98 forward worked the>way they FSX did pre SP1 with the "W" key eliminating side and>rear obstruction as well as the instrument panel. I just>can't beleive that after almost 10 years someone suddenly>decided that it had been wrong all that time. That doesn't>make sense to me. It's not logical as Mr Spock would say. I agree 100%.As you and others have pointed out, we have been able to get an unobstructed view in 2D in practically all the previous versions of FS.Reading about this problem, I've seen a couple of people say that the obstructed views that we see with SP1 is "true" view behavior, and it repaired a bug in the pre-SP1 views. I believe that this is not the complete explanation. It may be partly true, this "explanation" may have been given to some of the beta testers (maybe even from ACES themselves) but who really knows the genuine whole story, unless ACES speaks out publicly about this, which they haven't done. I highly doubt this is the complete explanation behind the 2D view fiasco.It may be true that SP1 meant to fix some bugs in the new camera system views, but in doing so, ACES overlooked the option that has always been present in previous versions that allowed us to get an unobstructed view in 2D.It really makes no sense to me that ACES deliberately wanted to prevent us from getting a full unobstructed view of the outside scenery. The camera system was updated, but I think in a rush to get out the SP1 update with the main focus on improving performance, the option to provide us with unobstructed views was overlooked.

I am glad this topic is finally getting the attention it deserves.I am a little upset that since the release of SP1, a reasonable amount of time has elapsed, yet we don't even have a positive response or workaround from the official team.I don't intend to rant, but its discouraging when an update breaks things which worked for as long as we can remember. This is different in my opinion from a "you cannot please everyone" scenario, because AFAIK what we have here is not a subjective feature/performance/enhancement request, but the product is objectively not behaving as documented.

>its discouraging when an update>breaks things which worked for as long as we can remember.No doubt it's very discouraging. There are a lot of unhappy and upset simmers who can no longer get unobstructed views of the outside scenery, something we could do in practically all the previous MS flight sims. This especially hurts those who made FS videos. I used to be able to make FS9 videos and even pre-SP1 FSX videos where I was able to completely toggle off panels for a clear view of the scenery in every direction. This is no longer possible after after SP1, and it's upsetting. TrackIR users and those with multiple monitors are affected as well.So far here are three suggestions for workarounds: >1. Go back to FSX pre SP1.>2. Change the 3rd eyepoint value in each aircraft.cfg.>3. Raise your view with Shift/Enter for UP and Shift/Backspace for DOWN >until you are happy with the side views.Unfortunately none of these is a satisfactory answer for the problem:Using suggestion number 1 - you lose all the performance benefits of SP1.Using suggestion number 2 - this shifts and ruins your Virtual cockpit eyepoint as wellUsing suggestion number 3 - same problem as with suggestion 2.So far these three "workarounds" are very unsatisfactory. The only truly viable solution is a fix that ACES releases to us, in the form of an option that will allow us to completely toggle off the panel and all cockpit textures in 2D view. For those that want to keep the obstructing cockpit textures, they can, but when "W" is pressed on the keyboard in 2D view, that means all obstructions should be removed to allow us a full screen view of the outside scenery. Just like we were able to do in all the previous versions.

OK, we'll see in the 4th quarter of 2007.Jimhttp://www.hifisim.com/banners/hifi-community-sigbanner.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/

Just to begin:http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?...e_cameras_viewsJos

Interesting it is... simple, it sure is not !

1. It was working.2. It got broken.3. It will be fixed.Patience is a virtue in short supply, apparently. :)

Hi Bill,Do you know something I don't ?>>>>>>>> 3. It will be fixed.I bet you there would be a lot more patience if someonefrom the Aces team were to post that this problem isaccepted as a legitimate bug and will be fixed via a patch.

Yes, it is a legitimate bug caused by SP1.How it got broken and when we will be able to address it are something I would like to reserve to discuss in detail later, but it should be obvious what our first opportunity to address this is, as our schedule for the rest of the year is public. Is that big enough of a hint? Now will there be patience? :-)At least there is a work-around for many needs.

>Yes, it is a legitimate bug caused by SP1.>>How it got broken and when we will be able to address it are>something I would like to reserve to discuss in detail later,>but it should be obvious what our first opportunity to address>this is, as our schedule for the rest of the year is public.>Is that big enough of a hint? Now will there be patience? :-)>>At least there is a work-around for many needs.Thank you so much Phil! For me and many other loyal FS enthusiasts, we appreciate that you took the time to comment on this. It was not knowing what happened to a great feature in FS that was causing a great deal of the angst.With you kindly taking the time to let us know that this problem will be looked at and addressed in the coming future comes as great relief. In fact, I'm thrilled to learn that an important and even cherished feature by many might have a chance of being returned to us.We acknowledge and value your candidness about this matter, and look forward with eagerness on any upcoming announcements that may be issued.Phil, a hearty thanks again! :-) :-beerchug

Super. Now the burning question is, can ACES release an interim patch to correct this so we don't have to wait for a full-blown DX10/SP2 release later in the year? Right now my only option for unimpeded 2d cockpit views is to fly an invisible aircraft by hiding the model.cfg file.

As I read Phil's post, he indicated that the Aces schedule for the rest of the year is laid out. When THAT is complete, other issues will be addressed. So I wouldn't hold my breath for an interim release. DX10 is next - then other stuff.Be patient because that's all you can do about it other than get your shorts in a bunch.VicVisit the Virtual Pilot's Centerwww.flightadventures.comhttp://www.hifisim.com/Active Sky V6 Proud SupporterRadar Contact Supporter: http://www.jdtllc.com/

Thank you Phil, appreciate the confirmation.I understand that the FS development cycle typically bunchesfixes together into Service Releases and that is fine by me.I'll promise to patiently wait :-)In this particular case, however, I would not be happy if the prerequisite for getting this fixed is "moving to Vista"..So, I'll keep my fingers crossed that the fix is not only availableto those who install the DX10/Vista Service Release.

I don't understand why some people are bending over backwards to Microsoft...my experience with FSX has been extremely poor since RTM, and this is echoed in the posts of thousands of other frustrated users all across the web.SP1 does make things better, but it should have been the RTM build, and it should not have introduced new issues of its own. In my opinion the problem is not lack of patience on part of your end-users, but that Microsoft shipped a product which was not ready.It seems some process somewhere is broken. Instead of acknowledging that, anybody who raises a complaint is called impatient, and "educated" about how hard it is to build and test software.Indeed, FSX is a great case study of how hard it is to ship good software ;)

I agree. This post was made on the day of release and here we are 5 weeks later just recieving clarification from aces that it was a bug introduced. Sure it will be fixed and moaning about it isnt going to make it happen faster, but its no wonder patience runs thin.Gary