7 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

The fact that Working Title was hired is direct proof that Microsoft/Asobo want the the revenue from the hard core simmer market.

That is because of the fact that ASOBO hasn´t the knowldge and Working Title is doing this as a part of the marketing AND for the systems in VFR flying planes = interesting for MS as this sells probably much more COMPARED to expensive planes like PMDG, QW787 etc.

I am a hardcore simmer. WE are in the same boat. No offense here. BUT WE are niche compared to the numbers MS is aiming for. Very niche!! We are "harmless" and "not THAT interesting" compared to the huge gamer market (selling XBOX, Selling XBOX MSFS!).

I feel the pain...and it´still a FACT that we do not have study level seen in the sim at a user end.

Again, I did not say that MS ONLY cares about XBOX. But at the moment they have THAT as their first priority. And that lasts for months now and probably will last for further weeks/months too.

Marcus

6 minutes ago, KL Oo said:

1. I'd beg to disagree that there are a LOT of simmers who demand study level airlines. There are undoubtedly a number, and a lot of them probably exist here on AVSIM, but in the market that is MSFS I'm not convinced there is enough to really drive the direction of the platform.

2. I take your point about ASOBO bringing on board WT...that does lend credit to the idea they are interested in developing more in depth systems within the platform, but without knowing the details of their contract/engagement its very difficult to say exactly how much of a priority it is for ASOBO. You say "they're not cheap"....but I'm guessing you don't know what they're actually costing in terms of ASOBOS overall development budget...  

EXACTLY

5 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Since the Twitch Q&A announcement that PMDG is an official partner for MSFS, I have said PMDG are probably going to get what they want out of Asobo, just not when they want it (because Asobo has other priorities at the moment, such as SU8).

Seedy reaching out to PMDG to follow up on this issue is an example that PMDG is still considered a first class 3rd party dev for Asobo,  Compare this to other 3rd party devs who are much lower on the ladder for Microsoft/Asobo and those 3rd party devs may never get what they want from Asobo, no matter how long they wait.

Yes......"letters" are very patient. I believe it when PMDG released. 

I do NOT think this will be before Q3 this year! And if, then all ok. But I have learned that MS words are taken with caution!

Marcus

5 hours ago, Kilo60 said:

Aboso could care less about study-level complete airliners for their Xbox game pass crowd!

Asobo doesn´t care at all.....they are getting payed by MS. But I understood you. And I agree completely. MS couldn´t care less about......

We can´t deny we havn´t a study level plane yet and the first "pronnounced" possible releasedates are skipped for a unknown period.

 

59 minutes ago, KL Oo said:

Two things.

1. I'd beg to disagree that there are a LOT of simmers who demand study level airlines. There are undoubtedly a number, and a lot of them probably exist here on AVSIM, but in the market that is MSFS I'm not convinced there is enough to really drive the direction of the platform.

Microsoft/Asobo know that the "hard core simmer" market will be the most stable throughout the years.  It's a given that casual simmers will lose interest and disappear sooner rather than later.  4 years down the road, 6 years down the road, who will makeup the majority of simmers in MSFS?  It's the hard core simmers that will be left, because they are dedicated to flight simming in the long run.

Asobo has been making changes throughout the last 1.5 years for companies like PMDG, so that study level airliners can enter the MSFS market.  They are so close now, why stop when they are so close? It's just time that is needed. Like I said, PMDG will get what they want eventually from Asobo, just not when they want it, because of other priorities for Asobo (ie. the upcoming SU8).  But Asobo will put the time aside to placate PMDG. Just look at Seedy, an MSFS community rep, who posted at the PMDG forums saying he will follow up on the issue. I guarantee you if PMDG were not important to Microsoft/Asobo, you won't have community reps like Seedy going to the PMDG forum to follow up on the issue for PMDG.

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

16 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

That is because of the fact that ASOBO hasn´t the knowldge and Working Title is doing this as a part of the marketing AND for the systems in VFR flying planes = interesting for MS as this sells probably much more COMPARED to expensive planes like PMDG, QW787 etc.

I am a hardcore simmer. WE are in the same boat. No offense here. BUT WE are niche compared to the numbers MS is aiming for. Very niche!! We are "harmless" and "not THAT interesting" compared to the huge gamer market (selling XBOX, Selling XBOX MSFS!).

I feel the pain...and it´still a FACT that we do not have study level seen in the sim at a user end.

Again, I did not say that MS ONLY cares about XBOX. But at the moment they have THAT as their first priority. And that lasts for months now and probably will last for further weeks/months too.

Marcus

X-Box isn't a priority. If X-Box were the priority, MSFS would have released for X-Box first, before PC!  The PC market was always the priority!

Furthermore, everything I mentioned about Working Title contradicts the silly X-Box theory.  The overwhelming majority of X-Box gamers are casual simmers - they don't care about the work that Working Title does.

Spending money on Working Title is a waste of money if X-Box is the priority. Working Title and X-Box casual simmers are on the opposite sides of the flight simulation spectrum.

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

5 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

X-Box isn't a priority. If X-Box were the priority, MSFS would have released for X-Box first, before PC!  The PC market was always the priority!

The reason why they did not do XBOX first is because they need "US", the big 3th party dev Names to have a good start up marketing and proof of concept running on a PC. 

Xbox has priority. It is the reason everything else is "lower prioritized". They have even sold MORE Xbox licenses compared to PC! So......why shouldn´t XBOX not be priority? 

But hey......believe what you like to believe.

I´ll stay with the fact that we still have NOT seen a study level ariliner in MSFS after "almost 2 years" now (since ALPHA).

That is 20% of 10 year promissed time "being online" by MS. 😉 

 

 

7 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

The reason why they did not do XBOX first is because they need "US", the big 3th party dev Names to have a good start up marketing and proof of concept running on a PC. 

Xbox has priority. It is the reason everything else is "lower prioritized". They have even sold MORE Xbox licenses compared to PC! So......why shouldn´t XBOX not be priority? 

But hey......believe what you like to believe.

I´ll stay with the fact that we still have NOT seen a study level ariliner in MSFS after "almost 2 years" now (since ALPHA).

That is 20% of 10 year promissed time "being online" by MS. 😉 

 

We're going to run circles around this. You'd be a terrible CEO if you hired Working Title, if you were prioritizing the X-Box market.

Working Title salary costs Microsoft every month.  All the equipment/computers Working Title purchases for their work can also be expensed to Microsoft.  Any travel that Working Title employees do (if they need to travel) will also be expensed to Microsoft.

No competent CEO would hire Working Title if they were focused on the X-Box simmers. It's just a waste of money.

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

On 1/11/2022 at 5:32 PM, WestAir said:

Mark, I'm just the messenger here who personally agrees that FS2Crew has far better voices, procedures, and Cabin Crew interactions than XAnimCopilot, but actually seeing the FO do stuff is certainly a bonus to immersion. Check out what they've accomplished:

If PMDG / FSCrew were to do a collaboration to modify your MSFS Copilot to be there with proper animations it would be absolutely awesome.

Personally, I find such a cartoon animation in such a hi-res, 'real life' looking cocpkit a complete and utter immsersion killer and find it rather vulgar. As I say IMO. 

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by Rockliffe

22 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

But hey......believe what you like to believe.

Obviously you believe the cr*p you’re saying…giving you credit it’s giving me a good laugh on a Monday morning

MFS is well suited to both PC & Xbox use,

& it is a personal pleasure to run both systems - each has their advantages…

I’m not sure why this is being argued as being a binary choice - only one or the other,

both are very valid platforms for MFS,

& btw, right now!

I'm paraphrasing, but this is what Randazzo said in the November Q&A:

He has talked to Jorg often. Communication with Asobo has been great during development of the DC6. Tons and tons of questions answered by the Asobo team, often in the middle of the night. The same process is taking place for the 737. It's nice to know that when we hit "knee-knockers" we don't have to code our way around issues and we can reach out for help from Asobo.

 

Essentially, the dev team have been very communicative and helpful, even outside of hours... All very much like what the Working Title guys were saying, and how Asobo had guided them, helped them with their code -- you know, because Asobo are professional, highly experienced developers on modern hardware and coding practices/techniques/methodologies, who also understand their own code.

So, this statement that they have not had responses for 100 days+ doesn't ring true. As I said in my last comment, one of Randazzo's comments copied here earlier suggests there is literally one sticking point, and his post also implies they have had a response on it, he just doesn't like/agree with the answer. The latest linked and copied response shows this, because he says it isn't an issue with the SDK but the main sim (while laughing at the FBW dev, Iceman, implying that he's inept for presuming the issues are with the SDK).

These comments are contradictory (and unprofessional, especially for a partner).

Also, as I said, we don't know what Randazzo is talking about, only Asobo do, and they don't usually have an opportunity to respond, because they are working for Microsoft under a professional contract and NDA. The public forum is tipped unfairly against them.

Whatever Asobo's response has been so far, they may be right, or Randazzo could be (although he won't have direct access to the underlying sim code, so actually everything he sees code-wise would logically be through the SDK, so I'm not sure how he could tell Asobo their underlying engines, etc., are the issue...)

Speculation is all we're left with, as we only see one side. We don't know how Asobo have tried to help him, we don't know if Randazzo is wrong about whatever the issue and cause actually is, we don't know what Asobo are working on behind doors in relation to it, or what they are tasked to focus on right now by Microsoft, or if a resolution is already on the cards but it will come right after SU8... We just don't know anything.

Unless Microsoft decide to publicly respond in the next Q&A.

11 minutes ago, craigeaglefire said:

MFS is well suited to both PC & Xbox use,

& it is a personal pleasure to run both systems - each has their advantages…

I’m not sure why this is being argued as being a binary choice - only one or the other,

both are very valid platforms for MFS,

& btw, right now!

Yes. That's not what I have argued about. Only that we haven't decent Study level and that's due the fact the SDK is still lacking (I have contact to several well known developers who ARE not able to build efficiently or some things NOT at all).

I would love to see a change on this. But for now I do not see something else then the big study level or even better airliners a still missing. 

22 minutes ago, EasternT3 said:

you believe the cr*p you’re saying

If it is "all cr*p" what I am saying......then proof me of that with evidence.

I was explaining why I think/assume that we haven´t got decent study level airliners. 

My assumptions and thoughts are "opinions" and "subjective" yes.

But that we havn´t got study level planes is a fact. 

At the Mister RR acting is also a fact!

His statements, his rants, his delays are a fact and you can read every single word of this.

You seem to mis that I would love to jump into MSFS with decent airliners because the visuals are good. 

Again, make me proof I am wrong. I did not say my subjective is right. I wrote it´s an opinion.

I am to long on the "sim-market" to "believe" sentences like:

- It will come, just wait

- It is all going well

- The SDK is complete (was the main sentence a year ago.......yeah......why we miss parts all of the sudden?)

Hence my sentence: Believe what you like to believe. When staying with the facts (counts also for me yes) we haven´t a study level plane after the pronounced possible release dates.

Marcus

1 hour ago, bendead said:

Latest Robert reply to this message : 

Marvin- That is cute. So in reality, he knows nothing about what I'm talking about, yet he is confident enough in his lack of knowledge to mis-attribute the blocker I referred to as being SDK related when in fact I mentioned specifically it was platform side... When you have as many wrinkles, grey hair and aching joints as I do- you have watched a fair number of people stride confidently into the plate-glass door of their own ineptitude. We have just watched one more. LOL - RSR

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/157360-11jan22-happy-new-year-probably-let-s-get-started?p=158050#post158050

Things really start to heat up, not in a good way and we still don't know what the problem/blocker is exactly.

To be fair to iceman, I too missed the post where Rob stated the showstopper was platform side. Moreover, Rob has on several occasions mentioned the SDK as being a hurdle to prompt release. It's all very understandable.

Cooler heads, guys. We're all on the same team.

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by WestAir
Clarification