6 minutes ago, a321 said:

It also does ASOBO no favours having no decent fully completed Airliners, I mean Rob is saying that he has no communication for over 100 days!
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/upcoming-pmdg-737-discussion/423051/456
 

Read the screen shots in the post! That's crazy, what do you expect him to do? ASOBO needs PMDG way more than PMDG needs ASOBO that is for sure!

And I call that BS. It is probably not the answer he wants to hear instead of no answer. See Icemans posts

6 minutes ago, a321 said:

It also does ASOBO no favours having no decent fully completed Airliners, I mean Rob is saying that he has no communication for over 100 days!
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/upcoming-pmdg-737-discussion/423051/456
 

Read the screen shots in the post! That's crazy, what do you expect him to do? ASOBO needs PMDG way more than PMDG needs ASOBO that is for sure!

I have to agree. It’s been a long time since release and we don’t have any well known dev airliners out yet. 

2 hours ago, a321 said:

It also does ASOBO no favours having no decent fully completed Airliners, I mean Rob is saying that he has no communication for over 100 days!
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/upcoming-pmdg-737-discussion/423051/456
 

Read the screen shots in the post! That's crazy, what do you expect him to do? ASOBO needs PMDG way more than PMDG needs ASOBO that is for sure!

This doesn’t make sense to me.  Randazzo was brought on in that Twitch Q&A about a month or a month and a half ago (I can’t exactly remember the exact date of the last Twitch Q&A).

That Twitch Q&A was well within the last 100 days,  And it’s likely Jorg that asked Randazzo to come to the Twitch Q&A because PMDG was made an official partner of MSFS.

When asked to come to the Twitch Q&A to announce PMDG is a new partner for MSFS, there is no way Randazzo wouldn’t have brought it up with Jorg if it was really bothering Randazzo.  

More likely, PMDG is talking to multiple people at Asobo and had asked one person at Asobo if they could implement this feature in MSFS for PMDG.  PMDG was waiting for this person to implement this feature and Randazzo waited through the announcement of the partnership with MSFS and the Twitch Q&A. Perhaps this person at Asobo got bogged down with other tasks and forgot about PMDG.  At the same time, if it was an employee of PMDG who asked an employee at Asobo, maybe this PMDG employee also forgot to follow up on the issue because he/she was also bogged down by other work, until this issue became prominent because it is blocking the release of the 737 for MSFS.

Big organisations like Asobo can be really complex. Even if the top CEOs at the organisation are buddies and are really close, the people below them may not always see eye to eye,  And if employees from both Asobo and PMDG can get bogged down with so many other tasks, they forget about requests from 100 days ago (especially if the Asobo employee went on Christmas holidays during these 100 days).

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

6 hours ago, Keirtt said:

Interesting.... it would appear a CM has reached out to PMDG directly on their forums 

Since the Twitch Q&A announcement that PMDG is an official partner for MSFS, I have said PMDG are probably going to get what they want out of Asobo, just not when they want it (because Asobo has other priorities at the moment, such as SU8).

Seedy reaching out to PMDG to follow up on this issue is an example that PMDG is still considered a first class 3rd party dev for Asobo,  Compare this to other 3rd party devs who are much lower on the ladder for Microsoft/Asobo and those 3rd party devs may never get what they want from Asobo, no matter how long they wait.

2 hours ago, a321 said:

It also does ASOBO no favours having no decent fully completed Airliners, I mean Rob is saying that he has no communication for over 100 days!
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/upcoming-pmdg-737-discussion/423051/456
 

Read the screen shots in the post! That's crazy, what do you expect him to do? ASOBO needs PMDG way more than PMDG needs ASOBO that is for sure!

 

No, they don't!

 

Aboso could care less about study-level complete airliners for their Xbox game pass crowd!

 

To drive new Sales on Xbox is their priority now and you can see it for yourself in the recent updates and releases!

 

Aboso are a lot more interested in releasing simple to fly fighter jets (flown from external view with a gamepad) and multiplayer online air races than they ever will be to cater to a third-party dev, making a study level complex airliner, that most people on Xbox wouldn't even consider buying!

 

 

20 minutes ago, Kilo60 said:

 

No, they don't!

 

Aboso could care less about study-level complete airliners for their Xbox game pass crowd!

 

To drive new Sales on Xbox is their priority now and you can see it for yourself in the recent updates and releases!

 

Aboso are a lot more interested in releasing simple to fly fighter jets (flown from external view with a gamepad) and multiplayer online air races than they ever will be to cater to a third-party dev, making a study level complex airliner, that most people on Xbox wouldn't even consider buying!

 

 

This doesn’t make any sense though. Microsoft/Asobo just brought in PMDG as an official partner recently.  And they even asked Randazzo to come to the Twitch Q&A to announce it to the community. PMDG only makes study level planes.  There is no point in bringing on PMDG as an official partner if study level airliners is not the direction Microsoft/Asobo want to go.

Furthermore, XBox players are more casual simmers and are unlikely to make more expensive purchases like what the PMDG 737 will cost.  I can see XBox players purchasing low cost add ons, maybe $25 USD and below, But as the price goes up, XBox players are really unlikely to purchase add ons over the $50 USD range. I’m sure some XBox players purchased the DC6 on its release, but probably not even close to the number of PC players that purchased the DC6 when it was released for the PC,

Microsoft isn’t stupid and they know in the long run, the spenders in the MSFS marketplace will be the hard core simmers in the PC market.  Casual simmers, like the XBox players, only last for so long.  The revenue from the MSFS marketplace down the road will come from the hardcore simmers on PC.  For this reason, Microsoft (Jorg in this case) will make sure MSFS can support study level airliners in the long run.  The MSFS SDK isn’t far from supporting study level airliners for companies like PMDG.  It will get there, it just needs time.

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

I like PMDG aircraft, but their developing process associated with too much drama LOL 

6 hours ago, a321 said:

 ASOBO needs PMDG way more than PMDG needs ASOBO that is for sure!

Really? I’d have thought it was the other way around. Pretty sure ASOBO can live just fine without PMDG…I mean they have done thus far…the MSFS platform appears to be rather successful and that’s got nothing to do with PMDG….

 

PMDG on the other hand really really do need ASOBO…I mean they’ve said openly MSFS is their focus … that’s clearly where they see the money and where they’ve moved their production efforts. Without ASOBO what would PMDG be doing?

38 minutes ago, KL Oo said:

Really? I’d have thought it was the other way around. Pretty sure ASOBO can live just fine without PMDG…I mean they have done thus far…the MSFS platform appears to be rather successful and that’s got nothing to do with PMDG….

 

PMDG on the other hand really really do need ASOBO…I mean they’ve said openly MSFS is their focus … that’s clearly where they see the money and where they’ve moved their production efforts. Without ASOBO what would PMDG be doing?

Msfs is doing better than fine. I think he meant that on a longevity basis. Companies like pmdg have kept people interested in flight sim for the long term. Without adobo pmdg would be developing for p3d and or xplane. Just like those are two sims, one day msfs too will face a new competitor. 

I would be 100% fine if PMDG release their first modern airliner, 737 for example, with slightly less functionality or traditional features it generally has, and then have and update or patch or a 'professional' model once Asobo implement the code for more advanced features in the future as the sim is evolving.   They can adjust their price points as necessary as the flight simulator market has changed and widened since FS 2020.  Seems like it has been ready for Beta for some time now.

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by simon747

5 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

When asked to come to the Twitch Q&A to announce PMDG is a new partner for MSFS, there is no way Randazzo wouldn’t have brought it up with Jorg if it was really bothering Randazzo.  

This is a possible view yes.

Do make a product like MSFS succesfull you need to have a super marketing ongoing.

How this can be achieved? If you partner with the biggest names in Flightsim! ORBX, Aerosoft, PMDG, you name it.

This makes the whole market believe, that THIS must be a great sim, because the biggest players are in.

Of course the partners would benefit too, at least they "believe" this.

Now we have 2 different partners here:

1) DLC

2) Airplane-Developers (and all the others who are "on hold")

Lets concentrate on PMDG, as DLC suppliers do NOT have any huge complain factors. Developing DLC is working. We see more then enhough of them in this short time. The SDK for this is "simple" and not big (read: small effort MS and big marketing effect for them too) win win for all.

Back to PMDG: They NEED the SDK in a manner, MS probably underestimated! MS promissed them a lot, but surely didn´t know what effort (=money) to put in to make mister Randazzo happy. The fact this takes so long, has to do with MS priorities (=XBOX=huge gamer market=revenue). 

Because a addon like PMDG does not sell that good, in the MS opinion!!!,  compared to "cheap dlc" on the whole GAMER market! Of course PMDG would earn good money with a PMDG at MSFS. But MS does less, and compared to the effort to put in the SDK this is LOW priority on MS todo-list.

I assume that this is the reason why mister Randazzo acted like this:

- First he was very pessimistic as MS announced MSFS

- He opened his opinion more and more, he will "check what is possible" as he saw the market is getting interested (he smells revenue but did not now how he will get his hands on)

- MS and PMDG got partner. MS needed big names and PMDG needed revenue

- Mister Randazzo promissed "us" and all other airplane devs, HE will enhance the SDK with ASOBO, it will all went well and BIG is coming

- MS learned about PMDG whishes for SDK enhancement and saw this will cost a lot of money and time....they put PMDG low priority as MS had XBOX in mind

- Mister Randazzo got confused, hence his more "rant" posts at the forums and also HAD to retract DC6 from Marketplace due issues

- MS still didn´t act and kept PMDG low priority (after months now!)

- Mister Randazzo got even more confused and angry (at least acted like that=marketing and saving his word not allowed)

- He made some statements it may not go so well as he liked....probably some feautures will be missing (the SDK is missing hard needed parts!!!! (like for his Weather and Terrain radar, LNAV etc. PMDG does NOT rely on PROSIM!) 

- MS saw the name of MSFS is getting under pressure, they invited Mister Randazzo (probably after some chat and "promisses" to convince mister Randazzo that he will get more from what he wishes)

- Mister Randazzo acts like he is a happy camper again (allthough he probably really isn´t that happy). He wants to sell and get revenue, he ALREADY has put money on this project!

......Now we have to wait how long this hick hack will go on......

Fact is: After all this time we still have no decent studylevel ariliner in MSFS and MS is not making any movement torwards "us". They still are working hard on DLC stuff, Air Racing-Stuff, WU etc. But IF they are working on the SDK, is NOT that clear (to me)

MSFS is still in game mode. Yeah, you may shoot me for this statement! Of course I would LOVE TO JUMP conmpletely in to it, but NOT at its current state and missing airliners and things like good integrated ground handling (like GSX did).

For MS it is ALL about the Revenue and ROI. Microsoft does have exactly ONE goal: Earn money as much as possible in the shortest time! THAT is business.....And I agree on this. But MS marketing and promisses HAVE done HARM to us simmers AND developers! 

And does still. That is what makes me sad....as we are to expensive for MS (SDK=Income primary 3th party Addons(non DLC). 

For my  personal taste Mister Randazzo made to early big promisses to us as he relied to much on the MS words, what they promissed him! He learned (again?) that MS is MS and won´t change! 

I find he promissed his (PMDG) customers and other devs way to much. I do NOT like this attitude. I rather like honest words or keep more quiet. But making promissed which you can not make true is always harming your business.

X-Plane 12 is around the corner...and I know some serious SIMMERS are watching this closely. Imagine what happens IF XPLane 12 gains customers from P3D AND serious simmers from MSFS away from them!

Mister Randazzo his project will not succeed that much as he expected. 

Regards

Marcus

 

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by mpo910

23 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

Because a addon like PMDG does not sell that good, in the MS opinion!!!,  compared to "cheap dlc" on the whole GAMER market! Of course PMDG would earn good money with a PMDG at MSFS. But MS does less, and compared to the effort to put in the SDK this is LOW priority on MS todo-list.

 

You misunderstand something though.  The cheaper DLC, such as sceneries, are only sold if flight simmers install MSFS.  There are still a lot of flight simmers who demand :"study level" airliners that haven't purchased or installed MSFS.  They are still using P3D and XP.  By making MSFS friendly enough for study level airliners to be introduced into MSFS, not only will PMDG come in, but other companies like Leonardo Softwarehouse (Maddog), Quality Wings, etc, will also release their airliners for MSFS, which will draw these users from P3D and XP that are not using MSFS.  Once those users from P3D and XP are in MSFS, they will start purchasing the "cheap dlc" you mention.

Lastly, do you know why the belief that Microsoft/Asobo only cares about X-Box is such a silly idea? Microsoft/Asobo brought on the Working Title team to enhance the G1000, and other Garmin products. Now the Working Title team may work on other systems, such as the 787.

The Working Title team is costing Microsoft/Asobo money every month.  They're not cheap.  The overwhelming majority of X-Box players, who are casual, could care less if the G1000 is enhanced, or if the 787 system is further enhanced.  

If I were leading MSFS, and I didn't care about the revenue from hard core simmers that demanded "study level" systems, I would not have hired Working Title at all.  I would have saved that money. The fact that Working Title was hired is direct proof that Microsoft/Asobo want the the revenue from the hard core simmer market.  This is why the theory that Microsoft/Xbox only cares about the X-Box players is simply rubbish - hiring Working Title and the money spent every month on Working Title contradicts this silly theory.

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

3 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Lastly, do you know why the belief that Microsoft/Asobo only cares about X-Box is such a silly idea? Microsoft/Asobo brought on the Working Title team to enhance the G1000, and other Garmin products. Now the Working Title team may work on other systems, such as the 787.

I did not say "only cares about XBOX". I did say XBOX has priority! That´s a difference. And IF MS ever cares "enough" about us, that is something we will know when the study level airplanes are getting released. Till then, and since the first shifted "possible releasedates for 737", it is written in the stars.

 

7 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

You misunderstand something though.  The cheaper DLC, such as sceneries, are only sold if flight simmers install MSFS.  There are still a lot of flight simmers who demand :"study level" airliners that have purchased and installed MSFS.  

Lastly, do you know why the belief that Microsoft/Asobo only cares about X-Box is such a silly idea? Microsoft/Asobo brought on the Working Title team to enhance the G1000, and other Garmin products. Now the Working Title team may work on other systems, such as the 787.

The Working Title team is costing Microsoft/Asobo money every month.  They're not cheap.  The overwhelming majority of X-Box players, who are casual, could care less if the G1000 is enhanced, or if the 787 system is further enhanced.  

Two things.

1. I'd beg to disagree that there are a LOT of simmers who demand study level airlines. There are undoubtedly a number, and a lot of them probably exist here on AVSIM, but in the market that is MSFS I'm not convinced there is enough to really drive the direction of the platform.

2. I take your point about ASOBO bringing on board WT...that does lend credit to the idea they are interested in developing more in depth systems within the platform, but without knowing the details of their contract/engagement its very difficult to say exactly how much of a priority it is for ASOBO. You say "they're not cheap"....but I'm guessing you don't know what they're actually costing in terms of ASOBOS overall development budget...  

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by KL Oo

On 1/16/2022 at 7:04 AM, IcemanFBW said:

I'm not usually one to comment on issue involving other devs, but I feel the need to point out something that simply isn't true.

There is absolutely nothing regarding the SDK that presents a blocking issue to aircraft development besides a custom weather radar API.

I can say that with 95% certainty having worked with aircraft development in MSFS for nearly a year and a half, and having spoken to numerous other devs and with Asobo developers themselves. Although we primarily use HTML gauges at FBW, we also use WASM gauges for systems and autopilot/fly-by-wire, the same technology that payware aircraft use for all of their code. And if Aerosoft is able to put out the CRJ as a complete product (with the exception of WX & terrain radar), I don't see why others cannot do the same.

 

Also, in my personal opinion, Robert's message borders on unprofessional. Having had contact with Asobo developers for quite a while now, they have been nothing but helpful and nice. There are obviously cannot fulfill every one of our requests at once, but are understanding and help out as much as they are able, given the constraints of working on such a large platform with countless other third party developers to communicate with.

Latest Robert reply to this message : 

Marvin- That is cute. So in reality, he knows nothing about what I'm talking about, yet he is confident enough in his lack of knowledge to mis-attribute the blocker I referred to as being SDK related when in fact I mentioned specifically it was platform side... When you have as many wrinkles, grey hair and aching joints as I do- you have watched a fair number of people stride confidently into the plate-glass door of their own ineptitude. We have just watched one more. LOL - RSR

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/157360-11jan22-happy-new-year-probably-let-s-get-started?p=158050#post158050

Things really start to heat up, not in a good way and we still don't know what the problem/blocker is exactly.

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by bendead