This makes sense until something better comes along...

https://www.ksl.com/article/50330029/majority-of-us-states-pursue-nuclear-power-for-emission-cuts

Noel

Southern New Mexico, Arizona and West Texas will be the likely dumping grounds for he US. Nobody seems to want to discuss overpopulation as a long term problem. A crazy idea since we can't even get cooperation during a pandemic.

 

Bill W

Not this again. Maybe I should post lots of links in regard to why nuclear power isn't the answer, all over again. 😁

Luke can turn up too and post everything he said all over again. It will be like groundhog day. 

Just kidding... don't worry, I wont bother, but don't expect any cat points to be awarded. 

Anyone remember the science guys predicting fusion-powered plants by the 2020's - how that going? 

But in reality, nuclear power plants are the most green you can get - except, of course, for the waste disposal problem, which may prove to be insurmountable...  

 

46 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Not this again. Maybe I should post lots of links in regard to why nuclear power isn't the answer, all over again. 😁

(..)

Well, I am supercurious for one thing.

 

&

In Jared Diamand's book 'Collapse, how societies fail or succeed there are a couple of chapters on societal failures.

One was a Norwegian colony in Greenland that didn't have enough supplies.  They failed to learn from the Inuit who lived just north of them and instead of loading the supply ships with tools and seed and things they really needed they loaded them with stained glass windows for the church they had built.

The one line on the chapter on Easter Island that I have never forgotten is ," wonder what thoughts went through the mind of the person who chopped down the last tree on the island."

Maybe the human race is suicidal.

Noel

53 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Not this again. Maybe I should post lots of links in regard to why nuclear power isn't the answer, all over again. 

Until something better comes along we have to make do with what we already have. 

The choice to supplement wind and solar is either nuclear or coal and natural gas.  So do we figure out what to do with nuclear waste or continue to pump carbon in the air?

The answer is not 'let's cover all the places where I don't live with wind farms and solar panels'.  Those are supplemental and leave a big footprint for what you get out of them.

There are a lot of locations where thousand foot deep salt beds are located for dumping nuclear waste until the comet comes.  I understand WIPP had a single accident that was quickly cleaned up in the 20 years it's been in operation.

Noel

16 minutes ago, birdguy said:

instead of loading the supply ships with tools and seed and things they really needed they loaded them with stained glass windows for the church they had built.

How much stained glass does one church need? I imagine the church was quite small so they would still have room for the essentials and that would have been just one ship.

It's just common sense, Noel.  When you consider the amount of power society demands, wind and solar power at this time, and into the near future, are just not enough.  I love the picture of the guy with the sign saying "Nuclear is not green".  He should add wind and solar to that as well.  They are "greener' than burning fossil fuels, and maybe even greener than nuclear, but they are not 100% clean and green.

Now we are adding electric vehicles into the mix, which will put even more of a burden on the power grid.

The answers are pretty simple, really:

#1 Conservation, increased efficiency, and recycling

#2 A mix of nuclear, wind, solar, hydroelectric, geothermal, and natural gas to provide electricity

#3 Reduce or stop population growth - this is the real challenge long-term.

I've watched some enlightening videos lately from people who have real experience with electric vehicles, and many of them aren't very happy.  One guy was so frustrated about not only having to wait in line for an available charging station and then waiting another 30-60 minutes to charge up, but half the time the chargers either didn't work or it took several attempts to get one working.  This was in Ireland, a very small European country.  Imagine having to drive long distances in the USA, Canada, or Australia.  Doesn't make for a very pleasant road trip.  BTW, he's selling his electric car and going back to a combustible engine vehicle.  He also said that the range quoted by the manufacturer is not what you actually are able to achieve, which doesn't surprise me as manufacturers will quote the most ideal and optimistic numbers.  In one case he had the heat off to make sure he got enough range to make it to the next charger.  Imagine running the air conditioner.  Electric vehicles are a niche market and are ideal for short urban trips, but they are not capable of replacing the entire vehicle fleet without causing massive inconvenience and even hardship.  I'm sure that technology will improve over time to the point that one day they will be the majority of vehicles on the road, but that's decades away IMO.

Some people like to believe in utopian fantasies, but I choose to be realistic and practical.  I do believe that it is possible to have a Star Trek-like world one day, but it is a long way off.

Dave

7 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Electric vehicles are a niche market and are ideal for short urban trips, but they are not capable of replacing the entire vehicle fleet without causing massive inconvenience and even hardship.

Are hybrids a good compromise or do they not live up to expectations either?

I drive a hybrid Dave.  Yes, I pull up to the pump and fill it up with gasoline, but not as many times as those with conventional cars do.  I get between 40 and 50 MPG.   It doesn't save that much on the highway but saves a great deal in city traffic where the gasoline engine shuts off at stop lights or in a line of stop and go traffic.  While those around me are idling my gasoline engine is stopped and my electric motor is doing the job.

The short term goal is reducing carbon emissions.  The long term goal is elimnating carbon emissions.

Solar and wind are fine for homes and such but it takes a lot mor than that for industry.  The industries that manufacture wind turbines, solar panels, automobile assembly plants, factories that produce washing machines and refrigerators.  Consider also locomotives that haul containers across the country in mile long freight trains, cargo aircraft that bring us our Amazon orders on a daily basis, trucks on the highway, and a thousand other things we never think about.

Carbon emissions are going to be with us for a long time.  We must do what we can to eliminate as much as we can.  Nuclear power plants can make a big dent in those emmisons immediately.

Does anybody know of any alternative to natural gas, coal or nuclear to power up an industrial nation in the short term?  And of the three which reduces greenhouse gasses the most?

As I see it in the short term we either pump more greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere or we use the salt beds to dump nuclear waste like the WIPP facility has been doing for 20 years.  There are salt beds all over the United States and oil field waste is being pumped into some of them now.

Noel

Noel

 

   

Edited January 24, 20224 yr by birdguy

OK, I can see this topic going the "Political" route. Any more remarks about "My Govt. is doing this or that" and being right or wrong, and this topic disappears! 

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

 

There are a lot of locations where thousand foot deep salt beds are located for dumping nuclear waste until the comet comes.  I understand WIPP had a single accident that was quickly cleaned up in the 20 years it's been in operation.

Noel

 

😁 I'm outta here Noel. It would drive me nuts if I were to retype everything Ive typed before, literally a few days ago. I'd have a breakdown. I mean we've just done this a nanosecond ago. A long conversation with me and Luke contributed extensively too. 

Its groundhog day. The same WIPP leak again.

Clearly nobodies views have changed. Nothing I say will change anybody's mind, no matter how much evidence I provide, that is clear. 

Pointless me saying anything. I'll just let you guys who think the same chat amongst yourselves. 

23 minutes ago, charliearon said:

Any more remarks about "My Govt. is doing this or that" and being right or wrong

Where in this thread are there any posts stating "my govt. is doing this or that"?  You stated "Any *more* remarks about" etc., etc.

Where do you see that?

This discussion thus far has not been political.  It is a discussion and debate about renewable and clean energy.

Dave

1 minute ago, dave2013 said:

Where in this thread are there any posts stating "my govt. is doing this or that"?  You stated "Any *more* remarks about" etc., etc.

Where do you see that?

This discussion thus far has not been political.  It is a discussion and debate about renewable and clean energy.

Dave

It was in the post that I removed!  That's why YOU did not see it!  Any further questions?