3 minutes ago, TASCHMANN said:

Say what???

They will have the same human conflicts on a Mars colony as we have here.   I understand what I wrote even if nobody else does.

Noel

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

Garghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! I don't believe it!   😬  Just once, that was all I asked. Do we really have to do all that stuff again for the 50th time? 🥵

Same stuff, word for word, all over again. I thought it might be possible, I was wrong.

You tried! I enjoyed the video and it was a good attempt to talk about the technical side.

It's all over the news for the last few days, something about laser technology that can greatly reduce travel time to Mars. The headlines say up to 10 times faster. I only read the headlines, not the stories.

God bless Elon Musk and his tax accountants. I used to scoff at Musk and his grandiose plans, electric cars indeed, LOL! But I don't doubt much any more!  People love to be negative about government and business leaders. I go by results, and both Bezos and Musk have succeeded and made my life better.

 

 

8 hours ago, martin-w said:

Refuelling sir

I think this presentation was really more about branding as an aid to investment.

The only practical way to colonise Mars in the layout depicted in the video would be to build a warehouse in earth orbit and then give it a big shove towards Mars.

If you build the transit vehicle in space then you are no longer compromised by the need to escape the steely grip of Mother Earth.

 

9 hours ago, birdguy said:

Won't that happen one day on Mars too?  Or any planet in our solar system?

 

Noel. we have doe all of this before. Which is why I asked for this thread to be about the engineering challenges involved ands what an accomplishment it will be in terms of technology and engineering. How its being done, what will be required etc.

As you've been told many times, its about not having all our eggs in one basket. YES any planet in the solar system could be impacted by a disaster such as asteroid impact... but Earth, Mars wont  be hit simultaneously. Same applies to all the other outposts we will have throughout the solar system, they won't be hit simultaneously, so when one is, then human race survives elsewhere. Its about being Multiplanetary.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, birdguy said:

They will have the same human conflicts on a Mars colony as we have here.   I understand what I wrote even if nobody else does.

Noel

 

Irrelevant Noel. There are a number of location in our solar system that could potentially be places the human race could have a colony. The Moon, Mars, numerous moons. War, civil unrest, authoritarian regimes being a threat, wont occur on all of them at the same time. Even if an authoritarian regime does exist on one or more of the outposts, the point is that human beings survive there, rather than dying out in one location, namely Earth. Those outposts are also a location where we can do things differently

Now can we PLEASE stick to the scientific and engineering aspects of this, rather than repeating everything we've been through before. Please don't make it another groundhog day. Other wise the topic is pointless. 

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by martin-w

8 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

The only practical way to colonise Mars in the layout depicted in the video would be to build a warehouse in earth orbit and then give it a big shove towards Mars.

If you build the transit vehicle in space then you are no longer compromised by the need to escape the steely grip of Mother Earth.

 

Spaceships payload capacity will be 150 tons. The plan is for quick turnaround and numerous launches. Its a fully reusable system of course. Transit vehicles could be built in orbit yes, but you would still require launches into orbit to build your transit vehicle. So not really much better. Major construction occurs on mars. 

I don't care how much it costs. I don't care how difficult it will be. I think we should attempt it because we can. I hope that I live long enough to see some of this become reality.

An earth launch with 150 ton payload followed by transit and then touch down on Mars?

Well that’s ambitious but this is an idea that can only exist within the taxation system we have now.

Sooner or later the western world will have to tax assets as well as income and for good or bad the Elons simply won’t have the sort of disposable income to invest in this sort of thing.

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by DD_Arthur

2 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Well that’s ambitious but this is an idea that can only exist within the taxation system we have now.

 

 

A Mars base in the future will be built by private companies. Nothing to do with taxes. Same for mining operations and all other such endeavours. 

I've asked a number of times that we stick to the science and engineering behind this. I have asked that because we have covered how its funded and whether we should do it at all a multitude of times. No point in doing it all over again. It will just end in heated debates again that we can do without. 

3 minutes ago, martin-w said:

I've asked a number of times that we stick to the science and engineering behind this. I have asked that because we have covered how its funded and whether we should do it at all a multitude of times. No point in doing it all over again. It will just end in heated debates again that we can do without. 

Sorry Martin, I understand. However, the reality is you simply can’t separate the investment from the engineering  and the way we do things at the moment I cannot see any private sector entity stumping up the cash required over the sort of timescales we’d be talking about.  The investment risk involved is too much.

The engineering? The most efficient way would be to build an earth orbiting factory to manufacture components that would then be boosted off to Mars individually to an orbiting receiving centre that would then process them down to the surface.

This negates any sort of space ‘ship’ for the transit of components between distant planets.

22 hours ago, charliearon said:

OK, so this is in the far future after a Mars Base has been established?  Wonder what was the purpose of the Earth orbit docking with another craft?

Maybe it will work this way:

- The one in orbit departed first, with all people on board, so it had just enough fuel to enter Earth's orbit, but it couldn't carry enough fuel to win Earth's gravity, do the final Burn to Mars AND carry all the people+life support at the same time,  it would be too heavy.

- The second one has just the crew on board, the rest is fuel, so it docks to the first one to Refuel it and supply the fuel needed to do the final burn to Mars. 

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by virtuali

Thanks for the explanations on the 2 vehicles!  Sounds logical! 🚀

OK Martin.  I'll bow out.  But my skepticism remains.  One final question.  Will animals be transported to Mars?  Like swine and cattle so they can raise pork and beef?  Or will the colonists all have to be vegetarians?  What about pets?

Noel

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by birdguy

Better to do major construction on a planet than in orbit, IMO.
Small items have a tendency to float off when travelling at 17,000 mph in LEO, as opposed to being stationary on a planet.