Electric Cars...

[martin-w 3,241]

18 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Here's some facts about EV batteries:

In a normal 1,000-pound Li-ion EV battery, there is about 25 pounds of lithium. Since lithium brines typically contain less than 0.1% lithium, about 25,000 pounds of brines are needed to get the 25 pounds of pure lithium.

A 1,000-pound Li-ion EV battery typically also contains about 30 pounds of cobalt. Cobalt ore grades average about 0.1%, so we need to process almost 30,000 pounds of ore to get 30 pounds of cobalt.

A 1,000-pound EV battery also has 110 pounds of graphite. At 10% concentration, 1,100 pounds of ore must be processed for each battery.

It is enlightening to read about the sources of these materials and the harmful effects of mining them. 

Dave

 

This has already been addressed pages ago.

Cobalt is the the process of being eliminated from batteries. 

Now what you should do, as said before, is to compare the mining of materials from batteries, with the gigantic amount of mining and drilling for oil that's required for a conventional ICE car. 

To save typing it again, see next post. 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by martin-w

[sightseer 895]

19 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Probably around 1987.

I thought Luke wass going somewhere else with his year question.  But the internet says a 1987 Ford Fairlane (didnt even know they still made them in that year) has 240 foot pounds of torque and so the car you want to use for reference actually had more torque than the EVs you now say have too much torque.

BUT: your current hybrid is an electric vehicle for most of the time anyway and it appears to only generate at most around 100 ft lbs of torque so its entirely possible to buy an EV with less torque if thats what you would choose to do.

but you should still probably not get a pure EV.

[birdguy 3,943]

8 minutes ago, sightseer said:

EVs you now say have too much torque.

I didn't say they had too much torque.  After all torque is a property of the electric motor.  I asked what why do you need that much torque and a 205 MPH top speed?  People are driving now with less and still getting around.

Noel

[birdguy 3,943]

43 minutes ago, Luke said:

I think traffic volumes have gone up a bit in the last third of a century.

And have added more lanes to handle the traffic.

26 minutes ago, sightseer said:

BUT: your current hybrid is an electric vehicle for most of the time anyway and it appears to only generate at most around 100 ft lbs of torque so its entirely possible to buy an EV with less torque if thats what you would choose to do.

Not most of the time but about half of the time.  It certainly is when pulling away from a stop sign or a stop light but I have never tested how quickly it can do that.  And it is in heavy (relatively speaking for the city I live in) traffic.  I have a graphic on the dash that diagrams when I am using the electric motor or the gasoline engine or both.  

I do have a question for you automotive exerts though.  The planetary gear transmission on my Prius.  It seems to do everything.  I see the gasoline engine both driving the wheels and charging the battery at the same time or I see just the electric motor driving the wheels or I see the wheels charging the battery when I am slowing down or braking.  And everything goes through that transmission and I never hear any shifting points or anything for that matter.  How it does all that is a mystery to me.

Noel

[JRMurray 214]

11 hours ago, cmpbellsjc said:

My biggest grip about electric cars is that they all tend to look like, electric cars. For whatever reason it seems like a lot of them tend to veer towards the nerdy look or look overly futuristic, imho

I just traded in my Model 3 for a Volvo C40. If you've ever seen a Volvo XC40 (ICE or BEV), it looks very similar, the exception being that the C40 has more of a swept-back look to it. It doesn't look nerdy at all.

[Luke 782]

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

And have added more lanes to handle the traffic.

Traffic engineers have proven this - increased lanes adds traffic faster than they decrease congestion. I've seen that in Atlanta over the last 25 years. Most interstates have doubled in width outside the Perimeter and traffic is dramatically worse than when I moved here in 1998. Each time I go to Toronto (home of the widest expressway in North America, if not the world) traffic volumes (and speed) gets worse and worse.

Sightseer raised a good point, by the way. Torque is by and large a result of displacement (and stroke) and not much has been done over the past 25 years to increase it. If anything, most cars have the same or less torque today than they did 40 years ago. They have significantly more horsepower and less displacement, though. I remember my father's old 3.8L Merucry with 215 ft/lbs and an anemic 140 horsepower. Today I get more than double that power in less displacement.

Cheers!

[dave2013 1,131]

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

Cobalt is the the process of being eliminated from batteries. 

That's good, but it will likely have to be replaced with another element that must be mined.  More importantly is *where* these materials are sourced from.

3 hours ago, sightseer said:

So... you don't have ANY batteries of ANY kind in your house AND you don't have ANY electronics of ANY kind in your house?

Not 1,000lb batteries, no.  Anyway, I'm talking about the scale here, that is, millions and millions of shiny new EVs with 1,000lb batteries.

Dave

[icewater5 181]

13 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Torque is very important ... instant Torque even more so ... some examples:

1.  You're at corner want to turn onto a road and it's difficult to see the traffic you want to join (perhaps a truck is parked is block some of the view, or it's on a curve), you pull out and suddenly see a vehicle coming at you, you hit the throttle pedal and instant acceleration (no downshifting, no waiting for RPM to build, etc.) and avoid getting hit.

2.  You're wanting to merge on a freeway from an on ramp, lots of traffic coming at higher speed, you need to get over into a freeway lane quickly before the merge ends, again tap the throttle instant torque and you're up to freeway speed and no issues with the merge.

3.  You see an UFO tracking you, you need to make quick instant evasive maneuvers so they can't lock on their tractor beam.

4.  You're doing a moonshine run from Bitter Lakes Farms down 265 to 380 to Main St. and deliver to Black Cock Brewery before the cops catch you.

Downshifting in the transmission and waiting for optimal RPMs in order to accelerate is slow in gasoline based engines ... difference between getting hit and not ... or causing other traffic to brake and/or change lanes to get out of a slow merge.

150 mph isn't the top speed in a Tesla Plaid, unrestricted it's 205 mph.  As far as the need for speed, who am I to judge, none of my business ... it's your moonshine.

Cheers, Rob.

I agree about 1 and 2, an overpowered engine can be useful in these situations. Whats interesting is that these practical uses of higher engine power dont seem to be advertised in this way, by the car companies, just extra power for its own sake.

Point 3 could be a problem in or around Roswell 😁

 

[G-RFRY 1,712]

You will always find industry telling you in the future it will be like this, did they tell you robots will do all the work and you will not be needed and be a drain on earths resources.  

[TuFun 438]

Now this is the EV I would want! 

 

[birdguy 3,943]

2 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

 

I can think of a Million and one things to do with my life if I didn't have to work all the time. 

I've been retired for 29 years now Rob.  And for 25 of those years I was healthy and active enough to do all the things I wanted to do.  Hiking.  Fly Fishing.  Back Packing.  Travelling.  Model Railroading.  Flightsimming.  Cooking.  Wildlife photography.  Taking the Great Courses.  Writing.  Recreational Fying. And I started running out of things to do and wishing I had a job to go to.  You can do things only so long before they lose their shine.

I was fortunate to have enough retirement income from a lifetime of working to do all those things.  Only lately as arthritis, balance problems and other ailments started to surface I had to give most of those up.

But a large question remains.  If robots are going to do all the work where are we going to get the income to live a lifetime of retirement?  Is everything gong to be free?  Are we all going to get allowances?  Are we going to have to go to school?  Or will it be optional if we didn't have careers to go to.  Will we all get rations of food to eat?

I'm lucky that I never had a drudge job.  I enjoyed all the jobs I had, and there have been quite a few since I never did have a lifetime career.  While I have enjoyed my retirement I get the most satisfaction out of the work I did before I retired.  The honors and recognitions I received from jobs well done.  Your life is measured by what you did before you retired.

I pray that humanity doesn't lose that to robots.

Noel

Noel

[Bob Scott 7,722]

Back to the topic, please.

[birdguy 3,943]

Out of the question Rob.  The nearest big city is Albuquerque, 200 miles away.  My comfort zone would surely be challenged to drive that far.  I'm just not up to it anymore.

For now, I'll stick with what I have.  If they ever get electric cars here I'll surely try one out.

But I gotta tell ya we have no expressways with on ramps here so I don't need the magnificent torque to find a slot in the traffic.  We are 100 miles from the nearest interstate highway.  And we don't have that much traffic here.  Even during rush hour I can drive from one end of town to the other in 30 minutes.

I haven't driven over 45 miles an hour in three years; and then only 10 miles out to the wildlife refuge.  So I don't need a top speed of 205 MPH.

Three years ago I purchased my Toyota Prius.  I test drove it out Highway 285 a few miles and hit the blistering speed  of 65MPH.

Noel

Edited March 15, 2022 by birdguy
Added last two sentences.

[Ted Striker 338]

Don't let them up-sell you Noel. Sounds like all you need is one of these:

https://cushman.txtsv.com/vehicles/shuttle-4

Electric of course to keep you friends here happy.

Ted

[birdguy 3,943]

Not for me Ted.  I'm scared to death of motor scooters and motorcycles.  When I'm out in traffic I want sheet metal and air bags around me.

Noel