2 hours ago, dave2013 said:

One of the biggest promoters of them in this forum doesn't even own one himself, which says a lot.

I don't recall you owning a nuclear power plant, either. 🙂

Cheers!

I picked up my Tesla Model Y in November and after over 7,000 miles since will never go back to ICE car again.  I didn't buy it for lower cost of operation although it is significantly cheaper to operate and I didn't buy it for environmental reasons.  I bought it because I like the technology. 

It's also fun as hell to drive.  Can anyone else think of a 7 seat family car that can do 0-60 in 4.2 seconds for $62k...the same time as a new Ford Mustang Mach 1? 

46 minutes ago, rjack1282 said:

It's also fun as hell to drive. 

I understand all electric cars are automatic. No gearbox, no clutch. I’ve been driving for 48 years and in all that time I’ve always owned a petrol manual gearbox car. I tried an automatic around 40 years ago and it didn’t feel like I was driving. Just pointing it in the right direction.

For me to switch to electric would be seismic. I’d be constantly concerned about the battery level. I understand if they break down they can’t be towed unlike conventional vehicles.

And what happens when the battery no longer holds a charge? Unless you spend thousands on a new one your car is worthless and unsellable. I’ll be sticking with a petrol car for as long as I can.

10 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I’ll be sticking with a petrol car for as long as I can.

Unfortunately, I don't think the powers that be are going to allow us to drive them for much longer.  At a minimum, they will make it so expensive and onerous that we will in effect be forced to drive an electric vehicle.

I'm hoping this doesn't happen until 1)the charging infrastructure is built out making available an adequate amount of *fast* charging stations, 2)the technology is mature, reliable, and viable enough to allow for a practical driving experience, and 3)the price of electric vehicles comes down to an affordable level for most people.

On the plus side, it would be nice not to have to rely on foreign countries, some not so friendly, for oil to power our primary means of transport.

Dave

1 hour ago, rjack1282 said:

I picked up my Tesla Model Y in November and after over 7,000 miles since will never go back to ICE car again.  I didn't buy it for lower cost of operation although it is significantly cheaper to operate and I didn't buy it for environmental reasons.  I bought it because I like the technology. 

It's also fun as hell to drive.  Can anyone else think of a 7 seat family car that can do 0-60 in 4.2 seconds for $62k...the same time as a new Ford Mustang Mach 1? 

Uh.....what's your yearly insurance costs?  My brother-in-law bought a 2021 Model Y and asked his agent what it would cost.  $3600 per year.  He was paying far less than that for 2 reasonably newer cars and a brand new motor-home.

2 hours ago, sightseer said:

How much is your electric bill?  How much will you pay in total over the next 30 years?  Do you expect your energy rates to remain constant over that thirty year period?

My electric bill is 40-90 dollars a month.  40 dollars in the transition months when I don't need heating or air conditioning.  It's been as much as 90 dollars when we used a lot of heat or air condiioning.

In 30 years I will be 118 years old and will have probably spent 10 years of that in a rest home where someone else is counting kilowatt hours,

Noel

 

I''m giving this one some thought!  It will be offered for model year 2023, by Subaru.

 

28 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I understand if they break down they can’t be towed unlike conventional vehicles.

And what happens when the battery no longer holds a charge? Unless you spend thousands on a new one your car is worthless and unsellable. I’ll be sticking with a petrol car for as long as I can.

I owned an Long Range All Wheel Drive Tesla Model 3 for three years, and I just traded it in for a Volvo C40 Recharge. Of course, both vehicles are BEVs--battery electric vehicles.

Battery electric vehicles can't be towed in a traditional manner (hook-up in front or back only, no dolly under front or rear tires), but can be towed either with a dolly or on a flat-bed truck.

As for the battery, most manufacturers guarantee the batteries for 8 years or 160,000 kms, whichever comes first, of course. As for how long BEV batteries might last, check out this page: https://www.evconnect.com/blog/how-long-does-an-electric-car-battery-last. One more thing: a BEV battery actually comprises a number of cells. For example, the Tesla Model 3 has about 3000 cells. If any fail, they can be replaced, so it would be unlikely that the entire battery wouldn't hold a charge--unless there was some catastrophic failure of all of the cells at the same time.

 

19 minutes ago, charliearon said:

Uh.....what's your yearly insurance costs?  My brother-in-law bought a 2021 Model Y and asked his agent what it would cost.  $3600 per year.  He was paying far less than that for 2 reasonably newer cars and a brand new motor-home.

$750 for a 6 month premium.  It's the same as the mini-van we replaced.

 

 

Quote

 

  4 hours ago, dave2013 said:

One of the biggest promoters of them in this forum doesn't even own one himself, which says a lot.

 

 

 

If you mean me... I'll do this in big letters as it hasn't sunk in...     I don't own a car at all!

So no, its doesn't "say a lot". But if you'd like to give me 30,000 quid I'll buy one. Me buying one if you give me the money, does "say a lot". Me buying one when I can afford a car, does "say a lot"

We need to work on your logic. 😏

Edited March 10, 20224 yr by martin-w

52 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I understand all electric cars are automatic. No gearbox, no clutch. I’ve been driving for 48 years and in all that time I’ve always owned a petrol manual gearbox car. I tried an automatic around 40 years ago and it didn’t feel like I was driving. Just pointing it in the right direction.

For me to switch to electric would be seismic. I’d be constantly concerned about the battery level. I understand if they break down they can’t be towed unlike conventional vehicles.

And what happens when the battery no longer holds a charge? Unless you spend thousands on a new one your car is worthless and unsellable. I’ll be sticking with a petrol car for as long as I can.

Honestly I felt the same way but it's nothing like driving an automatic car either.  No gearbox, no clutch, no transmission, just instant, maximum torque as soon as you push the accelerator at any speed.  The torque band is just one flat line at the top of the graph.

I recommend anyone to test drive an EV if you can.  It's free and at least in the US, Tesla will let you take one overnight.  If you still hold your opinion afterward then it's completely understandable but please don't compare it to driving an automatic transmission car.

"Range anxiety" is the term used in EV circles and yes it is completely normal to have but after a 1600 mile road trip and multiple shorter road trips I have absolutely zero range anxiety now.  I wake up with a full tank of "gas" every morning.  The supercharger network is massive and only growing...I have 4 within a 15 mile radius of my house lol.  Most hotels have free destination chargers which are analogous to someone stopping by to fill up your gas tank for free while you sleep....same for parks, shopping centers, restaurants, etc.  The amount of free miles I've put into my car since owning it is substantial.

It needs to be towed on a flatbed which is the normal tow method used where I live anyway...nothing special.  The last two times by last pickup truck had to be towed it was on a flatbed.

Your battery concerns are real but with an 8-year, 120,000 mile warranty I won't need to worry about it for a long time.  Additionally, there are multiple third-party "EV garages" popping up with cost-effective battery repairs and replacements.  I expect this type of service to only grow too as Model 3s and Model Ys begin to age.  

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

For me to switch to electric would be seismic. I’d be constantly concerned about the battery level. I understand if they break down they can’t be towed unlike conventional vehicles.

 

Range anxiety, so I'm told, is something you get over pretty quick. My old Mazda CX5 had a range of only 365 miles according to the trip computer. Many electric cars exceed that. And when we consider the performance you get, comparable to a Lamborghini or Ferrari, well those guys have a minuscule range. 

Some electric vehicles have a neutral mode for towing, most don't though, so its a flat bed required. Not a bid deal really. From what I've read companies are working on a solution for this. I've been towed once in my entire driving history. 

 

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

And what happens when the battery no longer holds a charge? Unless you spend thousands on a new one your car is worthless and unsellable. I’ll be sticking with a petrol car for as long as I can.

 

Its not an issue. battery life for a Tesla is between 300,000 and 500,000 miles. Tesla batteries retain 80% of their range after 80,000 miles. There are Tesla's used as taxi's that have done phenomenal ranges. I've never come anywhere near putting 500,000 miles on a car before changing it. Think the max I've done is about 70,000. Petrol cars have usually cost you a fortune in repairs and parts by the time they are getting up to 100,000 miles. 

The other point of course is that even after a battery has done 300,000 miles, they are still used for grid scale storage, so called "second life batteries". 

Myths and misconceptions about electric cars abound. 

 

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

I'm hoping this doesn't happen until 1)the charging infrastructure is built out making available an adequate amount of *fast* charging stations,

 

Do you do a lot of long distance driving then?

As rjack1282 said

 

18 minutes ago, rjack1282 said:

but after a 1600 mile road trip and multiple shorter road trips I have absolutely zero range anxiety now.  I wake up with a full tank of "gas" every morning.  The supercharger network is massive and only growing...I have 4 within a 15 mile radius of my house lol. 

 

Still a lot of myths about EVs out there, including range anxiety and stressing the power grid. In British Columbia, the provincial power utility, BC Hydro, has been planning for EVs for some time. Last year, BC Hydro posted a webpage called "9 Myths Busted, from Range Anxiety to Higher Costs."  Have look for more info: https://www.bchydro.com/news/conservation/2021/ev-myths-busted.html.

One more myth busted, source of electricity: Some critics of EVs state that the majority of electricity is generated from coal-powered plants (and therefore the carbon footprint of EVs is much worse than people might think), but in my province, about 91% of electricity comes from hydroelectric sources (see the territorial information from the Canada Energy Regulator, a federal government body, here: https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-british-columbia.html). 

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

Unfortunately, I don't think the powers that be are going to allow us to drive them for much longer. 

I think new petrol cars can be sold up to 2030 in the UK. So if I buy a new one in the next few years that should see me out.

@rjack1282, the situation is very different in the U.K. to the US. How much things change in the years to come is unknown.

46 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Range anxiety, so I'm told, is something you get over pretty quick.

You live in Guernsey don’t you? Maximum distance you can drive must be <50 miles.

48 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Its not an issue. battery life for a Tesla is between 300,000 and 500,000 miles

Well sadly we can’t all afford Tesla’s. I imagine your bog standard EV batteries will be very different to the Tesla.

With the annual mileage I do it’s false economy to buy an expensive EV. A Hybrid is as far as I’d go.