18 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Hello Aglos77, and welcome to the forums.

Please note that you are not allowed to make posts that are negative - or which could be perceived by others to be negative -regarding PMDG  until your total post count has reached 500.

You may make critical comments about Carenado after your 100th post. For Captain Sim, this can start on day 1.

Thank you for your cooperation.

You know full well what i am on about.... Keep up the whining though it's a good look.

Hace 3 minutos, Car147 dijo:

Sabes muy bien en lo que estoy hablando... Sigue quejándote aunque es una buena mirada.

Sorry don't take it personally but I learned a long time ago not to argue with people like you on the internet.

You don't know me at all, I don't know you at all either, it's all good here, have a nice day. 

 

What is it with these speculative dramatic thread titles?

On the PMDG one, there is an exact date, but the title pins it down to a week.

On this one, the Fenix, the source tells it is not months, but days. Which only means that no more than 7 week. While the title says it's imminent within days. 

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

From the previews of XP 12 I have seen so far, there is nothing that is revolutionary.

I'm flying MSFS exclusively, and I enjoy it most of the time. I took a short trip into the XPlane world a couple of years ago (before MSFS was launched), and it didn't spark my enthusiasm for flight simulation (after spending many hours in FS9 and FSX many years ago).

But I think there's one thing XPlane has  going for it: Maturity. While this isn't very exciting in itself, I totally get why long-time simmers prefer it.

Compared to others, I didn't experience a lot of issues with MSFS (except for 2 months early 2021 full of crashes), and I'm positive it's come a long way over the past 1.5 years. Still there are issues popping up with every update, more than I would've expected almost 2 years after release. I totally get why things (such as improving the glass cockpit) take some time, and how bugs make it into a release. But I see how this turns some users away, and why some users prefer to stick to XPlane for the time being.

And for the life of me, I don't understand why this battle of flight sims even exists, and why simmers feel the need to attack  others so hard about using the "wrong" sim... 

Edited May 8, 20224 yr by pstrub

25 minutes ago, pstrub said:

Nope, at least not for me (yes, I got the sarcasm)

Still I think his points are weak.

- "cheap preacher marketing" - Ok, this one I can accept. I don't see it this way, but it's his subjective opinion, fine with me

- DX12: it's beta / experimental and problems are to be expected. PMDG would be stupid to keep chasing this moving target, especially when it's likely that issues will be fixed in one of the future sim updates

- "I read bad reviews" - and I read lots of good reviews too. While problems can be found if you dig deep for them, PMDG has been one of the most reliable 3PDs in the flight sim world. Not with regard to keeping their time schedules, but their quality and support has been better than most.

That's why I think it's more than justified to criticise his criticism of PMDG.

Oh, I have absolutely no problem with people criticising other people’s comments during the course of more-or-less mutually respectful dialogue. I’d personally agree with 90% of what you just wrote.

I do think attempts to gatekeep those who disagree with you based on post count are pretty obnoxious, though. 

I’ve talked in this thread about how I don’t think PMDG is nailing the marketing any more. That doesn’t mean they don’t make great - if slightly boring - planes, and I have no doubt they will sell a bucket load. 

I’ll be first in line on release day, and will be taking the day off work to fly it without interruptions, just like I did when the NGX came out back in 2011.

P.S. Seeing this is meant to be Fenix thread - it’s worth noting that I’ll be buying that one on release as well, as I’m really interested to see what the new guys in town can do with the sim.

Edited May 8, 20224 yr by OzWhitey

7 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

I do think attempts to gatekeep those who disagree with you based on post count are pretty obnoxious, though. 

And I think I agree with most of what you wrote here 😉 

You make an important point about gatekeeping: That's indeed something that can be really annoying in the flight sim community... "you aren't a real flight simmer if...", "it isn't a simulator, it's a game" etc are phrases that come up all the time from people who need to feed their superiority complex. 

So yeah, some of the replies to the criticism of PMDG were the typical obnoxious attempts at gatekeeping...

Edited May 8, 20224 yr by pstrub

27 minutes ago, pstrub said:

No, al menos no para mí (sí, entendí el sarcasmo)

Todavía creo que sus puntos son débiles.

- "marketing de predicador barato" - Ok, este lo puedo aceptar. Yo no lo veo así, pero es su opinión subjetiva, me parece bien.

- DX12: es beta/experimental y se esperan problemas. Sería estúpido que PMDG siguiera persiguiendo este objetivo en movimiento, especialmente cuando es probable que los problemas se solucionen en una de las futuras actualizaciones del simulador.

- "Leí malas críticas" - y también leí muchas buenas críticas. Si bien se pueden encontrar problemas si profundiza en ellos, PMDG ha sido uno de los 3PD más confiables en el mundo de la simulación de vuelo. No con respecto a mantener sus horarios, pero su calidad y apoyo ha sido mejor que la mayoría.

Por eso creo que está más que justificado criticar sus críticas al PMDG.

Of course you can criticize my comments - this is a discussion forum 🙂 🙂

 

DC6 is the only addon I have that doesn't work with dx12, also the performance is quite poor on my system and I have many purchased (Leonardo, Milviz, Flysimware etc), you will understand that I have my doubts before PMDG.

But the intention of my comment, regarding marketing is that I being a person who has no affinity to any developer I see much more sensible marketing Phoenix than PMDG, which to me creates me distrust and the type of marketing that PMDG does for me does not help.

🙂

I'm sorry if my English is not the best, I find it difficult to express myself, it's not my mother tongue.

6 minutes ago, pstrub said:

And for the life of me, I don't understand why this battle of flight sims even exists, and why simmers feel the need to attack  others so hard about using the "wrong" sim...

It’s weird, because last I checked you’re allowed to fly more than one sim if you want to.

Personally, MSFS is my primary sim, and that’s going to become even more the case once the Fenix and 737 come out. But it doesn’t mean I suddenly hate P3D and X-plane. Lots of good memories from those sims over the years.

I picked up the awesome BAE-146.  Now that Fenix has announced I will not get the PMDG 737-700 and get the Fenix A-320.  I will pick up the PMDG 737-800 when it releases in 12 weeks.  That will give me plenty of time with the BAE-146 and Fenix A-320 before getting the 737 version I want. What a great time for airliners in MSFS. 

Just now, Aglos77 said:

Of course you can criticize my comments - this is a discussion forum 🙂 🙂

 

DC6 is the only addon I have that doesn't work with dx12, also the performance is quite poor on my system and I have many purchased (Leonardo, Milviz, Flysimware etc), you will understand that I have my doubts before PMDG.

But the intention of my comment, regarding marketing is that I being a person who has no affinity to any developer I see much more sensible marketing Phoenix than PMDG, which to me creates me distrust and the type of marketing that PMDG does for me does not help.

🙂

I'm sorry if my English is not the best, I find it difficult to express myself, it's not my mother tongue.

Yep, and that's fine - everyone has their perspective. It's enough to justify your decision to prefer the Fenix A320 over PMDG, especially when you already have bought a couple of high-quality aircraft recently. It just isnt't a justification to discourage everyone from buying the PMDG 737 (which you didn't do). 

Yep, discussions are what a forum is made for - and as long as we keep it friendly and cordial, there's no problem with disagreement. 

And no issues with your English! 😉 Escribes bien en Inglés, te entendí sin problema 😉 Soy alemán, así que el inglés tampoco es mi lengua materna. Aún así sirve para hablar de la simulación de vuelos con gente de todas partes 😉 

7 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

It’s weird, because last I checked you’re allowed to fly more than one sim if you want to.

Personally, MSFS is my primary sim, and that’s going to become even more the case once the Fenix and 737 come out. But it doesn’t mean I suddenly hate P3D and X-plane. Lots of good memories from those sims over the years.

Yes exactly - still we know how it ends when people bring up X-Plane in the MSFS forums and vice versa. 

50 minutes ago, Car147 said:

You know full well what i am on about.... Keep up the whining though it's a good look.

No, I have absolutely no idea what you are on about. 

You’ve now tried to have a go at me twice in this thread. I ignored it the first time, as I figured you were drunk and/or mentally impaired.

However, you’re turning the snark level up to 11 with these silly comments.

What do you think I am “whining” about? The Fenix, which is a super-exciting new aircraft for the sim? Or the PMDG 737, which I’ve said many times is a day-one purchase for me? 

36 minutes ago, pstrub said:

And for the life of me, I don't understand why this battle of flight sims even exists, and why simmers feel the need to attack  others so hard about using the "wrong" sim... 

I'm trying to forecast what may happen in the future, if LR doesn't turn things around with XP.  The market share that MSFS vs P3D vs XP is very interesting to me because if my forecast is right, I can apply this model to other industries in the future and potentially make money from my model.  Also business is a very rough and cruel environment.  I can tell you that Jorg and Austin don't think like you do, they are out to eat each other's lunch.  As much as you may want there to be harmony in the home flight simulation market, I don't think Jorg and Austin think that way because their very careers depend on the success of MSFS or XP.  If MSFS were a big failure and Austin and XP benefitted from that, that's a huge setback and a black mark on Jorg's career (and also for Asobo).  If XP fails and MSFS benefits from that, that will hurt Austin but boost Jorg's career.  So there is no love and peace in business. It's almost a war in business, and each competitor is out to take each other's lunch.

For this reason, I don't want to frame it as love an peace either.  I want to paint the picture as it is, which is a fierce competition between Jorg vs Austin right now (even though Jorg says little about XP, while Austin is constantly trying to disparage MSFS).  You can see at least in Austin's statements about MSFS, he is constantly disparaging MSFS, because he sees MSFS as a major threat.  Business is cruel, business is rough.  But I can assure you that both Jorg and Austin are out for themselves and don't think twice about crushing their competitor.

Edited May 8, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

19 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I'm trying to forecast what may happen in the future, if LR doesn't turn things around with XP.  The market share that MSFS vs P3D vs XP is very interesting to me because if my forecast is right, I can apply this model to other industries in the future and potentially make money from my model.  Also business is a very rough and cruel environment.  I can tell you that Jorg and Austin don't think like you do, they are out to eat each other's lunch.  As much as you may want there to be harmony in the home flight simulation market, I don't think Jorg and Austin think that way because their very careers depend on the success of MSFS or XP.  If MSFS were a big failure and Austin and XP benefitted from that, that's a huge setback and a black mark on Jorg's career (and also for Asobo).  If XP fails and MSFS benefits from that, that will hurt Austin but boost Jorg's career.  So there is no love and peace in business. It's almost a war in business, and each competitor is out to take each other's lunch.

For this reason, I don't want to frame it as love an peace either.  I want to paint the picture as it is, which is a fierce competition between Jorg vs Austin right now (even though Jorg says little about XP, while Austin is constantly trying to disparage MSFS).  You can see at least in Austin's statements about MSFS, he is constantly disparaging MSFS, because he sees MSFS as a major threat.  Business is cruel, business is rough.  But I can assure you that both Jorg and Austin are out for themselves and don't think twice about crushing their competitor.

Oh I totally agree to this from the business side, and my remark about the battles of flight sims wasn't directed at you, nor at Jörg and Austin, it's more like a general observation of the community. I've just seen too many derailed threads full of personal attacks and snarky comments in both the MSFS and the X-Plane subforums, and I don't understand why it's such an emotional subject for many. Not only Austin, also many of the X-Plane supporters try to disparage MSFS all the time...

Unless something totally unexpected happens, MSFS will mature, and 3PDs won't have a business case to develop for X-Plane (or P3d), making MSFS the only platform that gets exciting new add-ons. MSFS add-on market is already by far the largest in flight sim history (by number of buyers, not sure of sales figures), and as time goes by, a maturing MSFS will convince most of the "hardcore simmers" that it's eventually good enough for them.

 

Edited May 8, 20224 yr by pstrub

6 minutes ago, pstrub said:

Oh I totally agree to this from the business side, and my remark about the battles of flight sims wasn't directed at you, nor at Jörg and Austin, it's more like a general observation of the community. I've just seen too many derailed threads full of personal attacks and snarky comments in both the MSFS and the X-Plane subforums, and I don't understand why it's such an emotional subject for many. Not only Austin, also many of the X-Plane supporters try to disparage MSFS all the time...

Unless something totally unexpected happens, MSFS will mature, and 3PDs won't have a business case to develop for X-Plane (or P3d), making MSFS the only platform that gets exciting new add-ons. MSFS add-on market is already by far the largest in flight sim history (by number of buyers, not sure of sales figures), and as time goes by, a maturing MSFS will convince most of the "hardcore simmers" that it's eventually good enough for them.

 

Ok, cool!  FYI, just so you understand me, I come from a business background (also an IT background), and I also went to business school.  In business school, you spend every day writing case studies, often forecasting what will happen in a given market. So not only am I a flight sim enthusiast, I am also very interested in the business outcome of MSFS vs P3D vs XP.  To me, it's like another case study.

So if you see me writing about MSFS vs XP vs P3D, I am usually a bit more frank than the other posters, because I am looking at it from a business perspective, like I am writing another case study.

I am also on record as saying that I will jump ship and leave MSFS if there is another flight simulator that is cheaper and better than MSFS (better than MSFS according to my preferences). Having said that, I don't see anything better than MSFS coming to the home flight simulation market soon, unless Google gets serious about making a flight simulator, or another AAA game company steps in.