"Just another 737"?

[ThomseN_inc 1,128]

1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

One day, people will respond to a question on AVSIM with useful comments and carefully considered replies.

One day.

This will most likely never happen. Its just the way it is.

[MDFlier 2,031]

The Max has larger engines, which were moved forward and upward on their mounts so that they would have ground clearance. Boeing had limited options due to the landing gear arrangement so they moved the engines, which lead to a different flight model, which they "corrected" with SW to make it fly the same as a regular 738.

So in addition to the displays, PMDG needs to model new engine mounts and engines as well as update the flight model. To me, it seems like there would be quite a bit of modeling and coding changes. I guess the liveries will need to be fixed to get them to line up with the relocated hardware as well.

Then, they need to write new failure routines to cover angle of attack sensors, 

Oh... and they'll also need to simulate the MCAS system...  

[MySound 403]

delete 🙂

Edited May 8, 2022 by MySound

[enright 496]

 

6 hours ago, Ilari Kousa said:

A random question. Are you guys going to be interested in the upcoming PMDG 737 MAX family? Why yes or no? I've been thinking, in principle it's just yet another 737 after all, with slightly fancier displays.

The 737 Max is a fairly radical design - the engines are so far forward that they completely change the stall characteristics of the plane - so much so that an entire system was designed to aid pilots in avoiding certain stall conditions (MCAS). 

There’s a strong argument to be had that the MAX should have had a new type designation that would have mandated new training for pilots, which may have avoided the two similar accidents that grounded the plane. 

If you look at the engine mounts - the entire engine is now in front of the wing. It’s an amazing feat of engineering and materials science. To me it still defies the laws of physics - how can something so heavy be that far forward from the structural center of the wing? It’s like holding a heavy barbell in front of you with your arm fully extended.

 

Compare that to the original engine and mount point:

Edited May 8, 2022 by enright

[JSmith2112 317]

I found this link about the differences: Boeing 737 MAX - Differences (b737.org.uk)

Personally I might consider the Max when it's available but that seems quite far out in the future. In the meantime I'll be buying the -700 tomorrow and that variant only.

Edited May 8, 2022 by JSmith2112
Edit: Wrong link

[spinoza 48]

I'd buy the Max if it is super realistic ie. crashes my MSFS install often... lol.  Sorry.

[Chock 17,769]

If you are into realistically operating your simulated 737' then it is more than just another 737. The engines require some different management for a start. The core spindle on the new engine is lighter than that on previous 737s and what that means in terms of operation is that it has a longer and slower start up sequence so that it doesn't warp the spindle. The slower start up allows it to warm up and slowly get up to operational rpm without the spindle buckling. This has a bearing on spin times where with the engine still warm on a turnaround, the crews are always keen to crank the engines asap on pushback so they don't have to wait a long time at the trp before taxi. But it also means that the first start up of the day is a bit quicker because the spindle is cold and therefore more rigid meaning it can withstand higher revs sooner. This is just one aspect of the MAX which is operationally different from other 737 models. The same is true for the A320 NEO compared to the earlier A320 CEO.

[Prpn 366]

Not sure what people get so up in arms about. It is literally just another 737, and intended to be so by Boeing.

Yes, different engines, but you will operate them much the same... eg. start them, wait for indications that all is well, and go. Aerodynamical changes, but mostly by winglets that require no care of operation by the pilot. Beefed up landing gear but same ground clearance for the engine nacelles. So we are left with mostly the fancy new displays. And you will still operate the plane the same way as previous 737s pretty much. Stop claiming it is such a different beast, you will not notice most of the changes in a sim model.

[Stearmandriver 2,296]

This will probably be unpopular, but speaking as someone who flies NGs and Maxs... it's true that the displays are the most meaningful difference for pilots.  Especially in a sim. 

The aerodynamics of the engine position really only come into play at high alpha.  No one spends much time there on a normal flight ;).

MCAS is simply a different function of the speed trim system, which already exists in the PMDG 737s.  It would only ever activate during a stall recovery, something else you don't do much of on a normal flight. 

The spoilers are now FBW and that allows a few handy functions, but the purpose of all of them is to make the flight characteristics match those of the NGs for common type cert.  So from a sim standpoint, other than visually seeing them trail on approach for example, this doesn't matter too much either. 

Yes, you'll have to wait until the "Motoring" annunciation clears before introducing fuel. And don't turn the packs on until the red line on the EGT clears ;).

I'll grab the PMDG Max for the new displays (which are nice), but from posts on this thread it sounds like some folks might be surprised at how little difference they'll notice otherwise. It makes sense though when you think about it: the plane was designed to share a common type cert with the rest of the family, and that by definition puts a severe limit on the differences that are noticeable to a pilot. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Stearmandriver

[Fielder 3,676]

6 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

One day, people will respond to a question on AVSIM with useful comments and carefully considered replies.

One day.

I'm reading through Nostradamus, you may be correct, not sure yet...

[UltimateAntic 28]

Personally I am interested in a 737 Max, but who knows when that will be released since the -800 is estimated for an August release. So rather just get that and call it a day for PMDG products. 

[Amon1973 1,421]

8 hours ago, Ilari Kousa said:

A random question. Are you guys going to be interested in the upcoming PMDG 737 MAX family? Why yes or no? I've been thinking, in principle it's just yet another 737 after all, with slightly fancier displays.

Seeing as I like to fly in aircraft that I'm most likely to fly IRL, the MAX will definitely be in my hanger, when it's released.

[Mike S KPDX 597]

9 hours ago, Ilari Kousa said:

A random question. Are you guys going to be interested in the upcoming PMDG 737 MAX family? Why yes or no? I've been thinking, in principle it's just yet another 737 after all, with slightly fancier displays.

I am.  I may consider buying the 800 (as those are much much more common).  But when the MAX is available I am sure I will get it.  This is because it brings the Boeing family from the 1970's into the 1990's in terms of aesthetics and functionality.  Far behind Airbus in this area.  However, the new clean sheet design should bring them right up to speed.

[DavidP 1,411]

I agree with the OP. Same applies to Airbus - all we ever see are a myriad of variations of the 318-321 family. 

[FlyingInACessna 656]

11 hours ago, tamsini said:

If airliners and, specifically, Boeing, do not interest you then don't bother. If you do, get ready for an "as real as it gets" experience. You obviously are not familiar with PMDG products (or are just baiting us).

You did see that the question was about the "MAX" variant that will likely be released much later on, right?