At least ELITE Simulation Solutions used ESP and later P3D for scenery in some of their FTDs.

ProSIM I believe uses P3D too: Homepage - ProSim Aviation Research (prosim-ar.com)

18 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Please post a link to these companies! I'm very curious.

Sorry, I don't have a link, there is(or was?) one near ZBTJ for actually training, I have been told it uses P3D 1.4 (back even then, v4 was already a thing). and having been in there, the scenery is indubitably some kind of Microsoft ESP series.

4 minutes ago, 2reds2whites said:

That’s fair, I’m sure companies like Lockheed Martin really don’t use any simulators. Perhaps they should get some advice from the people operating DreamAero in a…….shopping mall. 
 

I’ve flown at least 10 varieties of ZFT approved full flight sims and I can assure you that none of them were running x-plane. 

https://twitter.com/XPlaneOfficial/status/1520062141985968130?cxt=HHwWhMC-md2drJgqAAAA

Here's another one from the recent flight sim show in Europe.

I'm claiming that companies seeking to make motion sims for home and yes, shopping mall use tend to use XP. Lockheed's P3D target market is professional applications. I don't see them in full motion sims that are for sale or rent.

So what were these 10 sims running? FS2020? P3D? None of the above?

I would hope that LevelC/D sims are NOT running either XP or P3D. That would scare me!

12 minutes ago, jcomm said:

At least ELITE Simulation Solutions used ESP and later P3D for scenery in some of their FTDs.

ProSIM I believe uses P3D too: Homepage - ProSim Aviation Research (prosim-ar.com)

Is this full motion? Looks like a stationary trainer.

2 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Is this full motion? Looks like a stationary trainer.

Not Level-D, FTD.

Never heard of CAE using XP for the visuals.

Edited May 18, 20224 yr by jcomm

3 hours ago, blingthinger said:

That’s fair, I’m sure companies like Lockheed Martin really don’t use any simulators

This comment makes me laugh because Lockheed didn't write FSX/ESP. Were you hoping they were excited that Microsoft let them use FSX as their F22 simulator platform???

I suppose the lack of FSX motion sims could also be a license issue...maybe too costly to sell in a product? But even given the number of real pilots who claim the XP model is better just after sitting in their chair for a few hrs, makes me think there are flight model issues that FSX/Asobo can't address.

 

Back on the thread at hand though, why did PMDG abandon XP in the first place? Was there some disagreement w/ Laminar? It seems like that announcement came right around the time Asobo would have started development on FS2020. I wonder if they were tipped off to the new sim early on and decided to dump XP?

5 hours ago, Murmur said:

You're aware he is a real 737 pilot, right? You think I should weigh your opinion more than his? 🤣

I think you should weigh the fact that his logo is in the zibo tablet more.

Edit: I just read on a previous page that fd2s didn't even say he has a preference. So yeah thanks for the discussion murmur

Edited May 18, 20224 yr by rka

3 minutes ago, rka said:

I think you should weigh the fact that his logo is in the zibo tablet more.

Yeah the kickbacks for a free aircraft on the runner-up sim that isn't on xbox, are really worth the blood sweat and tears as well as reputation cost to lie about flight characteristics in front of coworkers and peers who also watch the videos.

He's an employed, type-rated pilot. He's tested both. He prefers Zibo for flight dynamics and general handling. Is anyone else with those credentials (who isn't on the PMDG 'tech team') doing a direct comparison like that?

Your accusation about his motives don't stand up to his reputation.

11 hours ago, blingthinger said:

I’ve flown at least 10 varieties of ZFT approved full flight sims and I can assure you that none of them were running x-plane.

@2reds2whites

So were they decommissioned C/D sims? Any websites? I'd like to visit them if possible. Any of them 737? I want to compare back to these desktop 737 models.

9 hours ago, blingthinger said:

Back on the thread at hand though, why did PMDG abandon XP in the first place? Was there some disagreement w/ Laminar? It seems like that announcement came right around the time Asobo would have started development on FS2020. I wonder if they were tipped off to the new sim early on and decided to dump XP?

No, seems they couldnt get away with what the do with the other sim. Disagreement with majority of xplane users.

Not that would know as I am not a pilot but I do accept the verdict, of those who are,  in that XP has a slightly more true to life flight model. For the vast, vast majority of people who enjoy the hobby this is just one aspect of the experience as a whole. And it's a fairly minor one because very few will actually notice. I certainly can't.  Both sims have flight models which are absolutely fit for purpose.

Edited May 19, 20224 yr by jarmstro

Just now, mjrhealth said:

No, seems they couldnt get away with what the do with the other sim. Disagreement with majority of xplane users.

Any proof? Web site link? Blog post? 

Read the MSFS SDK. The aerodynamics are a joke. No wonder PMDG had to inject their own model. And it still falls short. Because the fundamentals are weak:

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/mergedProjects/How_To_Make_An_Aircraft/Contents/Files/Flight_Model/Basic_Aerodynamics.htm

"The use of geometric information and a surface-based simulation reduces the need for aerodynamic performance data to the strict minimum"

This is a pathetic attempt at explaining away the following:

A) compatibility w/ legacy FSX models and developer know-how

B) Xbox-friendly

C) relatively rapid software development by a group of people who had to use XP to learn how to do aerodynamics.

When building a model of this fidelity, be it blade element theory, or the joke described above, you NEED aerodynamic performance information. You do not restrict it to a "minimum". What's more, the "geometric information" the developer must then specify would work well for a toy wood airplane. Joke.

Here's another page:

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Programming_Tools/SimVars/Aircraft_SimVars/Aircraft_Control_Variables.htm

Look at the right column. Note the number of values PMDG is allowed to modify. Lots of red over there. I have tons of respect for whomever developed their aero model. They worked a miracle with a game engine. Must have been like training a brick to fly!

5 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

The aerodynamics are a joke.

The success of the sim and the sales of addon planes would indicate that the joke worked. Could you tell me why my daughter in law tells me that her real piper warrior flies just  like the one I have in MFS?

Just now, jarmstro said:

The success of the sim and the sales of addon planes would indicate that the joke worked. Could you tell me why my daughter in law tells me that her real piper warrior flies just  like the one I have in MFS?

The joke worked because of Bing maps and Blackshark AI to make things pretty.

There is enough information to make straight and level flight work just fine. A piper warrior is as mundane as it gets. So is a 737 on autopilot. But when you stomp on the 737 rudder and nothing happens in PMDG, you don't have to look very far to understand why.