Doesn’t the Brunner do this well? That’s on my purchase list… 

10 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Doesn’t the Brunner do this well? That’s on my purchase list… 

Even a Brunner is limited to some extent by the very odd Asobo decision that FFB was a gimmick and hence there was no need to make force information available to external devices.

Brunner devices with their custom software are by all accounts very very good in MSFS - but if MSFS provided more information to the drivers they would be better than very good, they would be amazing.

 

I don´t think Asobo believes that FFB is trash, if so, they didn´t have vibration functions in the gamepads programmed and studied, I think is cause of the market, I believe in all their HOTAS don’t have FFB, because they don´t exist anymore..., by the moment, I hope that change in the near future, the company that moves first into will be a win win.

I use my trusty ol MSFT FFB 2 after having it since I was a little kid and still works wonders. But it is frusterating going from DCS World there some modules have FFB implemented AMAZINGLY (with even rumbles during high speed takeoff rolls or if you forget to close the cowl flaps) to MSFS2020 where the stick feels like a semi-stiff dead fish. 

On 11/7/2022 at 7:43 AM, DD_Arthur said:

There are still plenty of them out there. I’ve got three and they seem indestructible!

 

Unless you're willing to sell two of them, your having 3 doesn't really affect the total number of users of them. 😉

 

9 minutes ago, eslader said:

Unless you're willing to sell two of them, your having 3 doesn't really affect the total number of users of them. 😉

 

So?  My point was that there are plenty of them available.

🙃

14 hours ago, peloto said:

I don´t think Asobo believes that FFB is trash, if so, they didn´t have vibration functions in the gamepads programmed and studied

This was the whole problem.

Asobo had no flightsim experience, they were experts on converting aerial mapping into useful 3D landscapes for sims and were extremely good at that, but otherwise were initially "flying blind" (excuse the pun) .

Hence they THOUGHT that flightsim FFB was just a gimmick like the rumble and shake you get in gamepads and similar controllers and saw little point in providing any force information to external controllers.

It actually took quite a bit to convince Asobo that there was more to FFB than wheel rumble during the take-off roll and a thump when the gear went up.

6 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

This was the whole problem.

Asobo had no flightsim experience, they were experts on converting aerial mapping into useful 3D landscapes for sims and were extremely good at that, but otherwise were initially "flying blind" (excuse the pun) .

Hence they THOUGHT that flightsim FFB was just a gimmick like the rumble and shake you get in gamepads and similar controllers and saw little point in providing any force information to external controllers.

It actually took quite a bit to convince Asobo that there was more to FFB than wheel rumble during the take-off roll and a thump when the gear went up.

without a mass market FFB product that users can buy in a shop it's not worth MS/Asobo putting the resources into FFB support - there are better places to spend development time.
Rumble support in gamepads is ubiquitous so it made sense to them to include that, but that's not the case with FFB.

23 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

without a mass market FFB product that users can buy in a shop it's not worth MS/Asobo putting the resources into FFB support - there are better places to spend development time.

Vicious circle.

Without a mass market product, Asobo have no incentive to do the work.

Without MSFS software support, Hardware companies have no incentive to produce the devices. 

Some of you send a bunch of yours FFB to the headquarters of MSFS, and a least they could work to implement the FFB in a new Simulator, because they can´t buy it nowhere, they do not exist to sell since more than a decade.

The hardware companies have incentive cause the other more ancient sims still work with FFB or with some community mods, despite that, they still are in the comfy side of do not building an ancient proven strong ultra-durable technology.

I was going to buy a HOTAS these days, till I knew that they do not have a single solely sad lonely rumble motor and less FFB, I will stay with my gamepad that has more immersion technology till I buy a 3DoF or a very cheap buttkicker.

2 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Vicious circle.

Without a mass market product, Asobo have no incentive to do the work.

Without MSFS software support, Hardware companies have no incentive to produce the devices. 

Absolutely, but I'm not sure what the solutions is, because lets be clear I WOULD LOVE modern affordable FFB kit (especially a yoke).

Maybe one of the smaller companies like VKB or Winwing releases something aimed at DCS and that gains enough traction to make it mainstream ?
Maybe a bigger manufacturer partners with MS to create a Win & XB compatible FFB controller ?

Or maybe it just doesn't happen 😞

Edited November 10, 20223 yr by Matchstick

1 hour ago, Matchstick said:

Or maybe it just doesn't happen 😞

back to Brunner it is then 😄 

On 11/9/2022 at 6:43 PM, DD_Arthur said:

So?  My point was that there are plenty of them available.

🙃

So why would they bother programming FFB capabilities into the sim when the few FFB sticks out there are being hoarded by an even fewer number of people? 

 

28 minutes ago, eslader said:

So why would they bother programming FFB capabilities into the sim when the few FFB sticks out there are being hoarded by an even fewer number of people? 

 

This is a question for me? 😯

Sorry, I’ve no idea. However, it would seem unlikely that whatever discussions about ffb that have taken place within Asobo have been concerned with the market for second hand joysticks.

28 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

This is a question for me? 😯

Sorry, I’ve no idea. However, it would seem unlikely that whatever discussions about ffb that have taken place within Asobo have been concerned with the market for second hand joysticks.

I mean, you were replying to a post explaining that Asobo isn't bothering to implement FFB because there aren't enough users with FFB controllers, so I assumed you were trying to make a related point...