MSFS Forum surpasses Prepar3D post count…

[abrams_tank 7,425]

2 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

That's your Holy Grail, mine has somewhat different priorities leaning more towards the experience and sensation of flying.

That's not a problem for me and personally I'm happy to see sims concentrating on different aspects to provide different people the experiences they want.

So I don't want an MSFS clone, I want other sims to go their own way, show us other ways of doing things. Maybe they'll find an audience, maybe they won't, but at least we get to make a choice.

Well, I disagree with you.  If a sim can be good in all areas, that would be the best.  I want MSFS to excel in all areas, not just in terrain.  And I think MSFS can excel at all areas in the long run, if Microsoft keeps the budget for Asobo, or even expands the budget for Asobo (ie. if Microsoft intends to enter the commercial market down the road, they may even expand the budget spent on MSFS).

[abrams_tank 7,425]

2 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Now imagine them giving MSFS to Lockheed Martin... again 😄 To be honest I wouldn't rule that out after the 10 years are over.

Yes, that is definitely a possibility.  

[flying_carpet 657]

2 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

What is your point?

My point is: The reason why Burgerking is so successful, is because of its good food. No specialty restaurant comes close to this - and that's the reason why they don't sell as much as Burgerking.
😁
In other words: The sales figures of a product (franchise, whatever) tells how superior it is to the product with less sales figures ... not. At least not automatically. It can be even the other way round - quality/specialty products are usually more expensive and less people buy them.

 

1 hour ago, Matchstick said:

What's the advantage of another sim just trying to follow in the same footsteps of MSFS ?

Personally I WANT X-Plane to go a different route and concentrate on different areas so it can offer me a distinct experience.

THIS!

 

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

Having terrain, objects, and landmarks that follows real life is the holy grail for a "flight simulator."  Heck, not just for a flight simulator. But the same for train simulator, truck simulator, etc.

Believe it or not, even X-Plane 11 has that, too ... Although without orthophotos. But you can perfectly navigate with the help of terrain, objects, and landmarks.

 

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

So no, for a simulator, the only route is try better to match the environment in real life. This also includes the accurate placement of objects, landmarks, etc, in the simulator, as they appear in real life.

It depends on what you want to simulate. Don't get me wrong, I still use MSFS for sightseeing, but if I want immersion *, I use X-Plane.

* I mean "immersion" of being a pilot, who has to fly, navigate, ... an aircraft and in case of failures has to handle them. Just recently during an approach in bad weather (i.e. cloudy and stormy - BTW with turbulences within the clouds, what I haven't seen in MSFS) and on the glideslope, BADABOOM ... suddenly I lost the ILS indicator. So, what to do? In reality I had to do a go around, however I continued because the worst what can happen is, that I bend some pixels on my screen. Fortunately some hundred feet above ground, the runway came in sight, so I could land safely. After the landing I had a look into the failures and realized, it wasn't the receiver in my plane ... but the ILS transmitter. Yes!! This is simulated in X-Plane. And muuuch more.

Of course not everyone wants to do such things and is happy flying from A to B with not disturbance and there's nothing wrong with it. Simply different audience.

 

[abrams_tank 7,425]

5 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

Believe it or not, even X-Plane 11 has that, too ... Although without orthophotos. But you can perfectly navigate with the help of terrain, objects, and landmarks.

It depends on what you want to simulate. Don't get me wrong, I still use MSFS for sightseeing, but if I want immersion *, I use X-Plane.

No, please don't compare XP ortho to the satellite & photogrammetry that MSFS uses, including the conversion of 2D satellite objects to 3D objects by Blackshark AI.  The terrain that MSFS generates is vastly superior to XP.  And for me, this is what makes MSFS 10 years more advanced than XP.

There is no comparison for me.  It's not even a competition.  And as a bonus, I don't have to waste extra money buying an extra hard drive just to store ortho.

Edited June 6, 2022 by abrams_tank

[Matchstick 1,886]

12 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Well, I disagree with you.  If a sim can be good in all areas, that would be the best.  I want MSFS to excel in all areas, not just in terrain.  And I think MSFS can excel at all areas in the long run, if Microsoft keeps the budget for Asobo, or even expands the budget for Asobo (ie. if Microsoft intends to enter the commercial market down the road, they may even expand the budget spent on MSFS).

If that's the case then we'll have everyone's perfect sim and everything will be great (apart from having a monoculture with all the issues that brings).

But I don't think that will ever be the case and it certainly isn't at the moment, so I welcome alternative sims and approaches.

[abrams_tank 7,425]

5 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

As I said before, different audience. But you completely ignore the other stuff I have written. I have a deja vu. It's around 3 years ago, when YT suggested a video to me, it was about flat earth. Not because I'm a flatearther, but interested in science (astronomy, physics, ...). So, I dived deeper into that bubble, and always found it interesting, how the flat earthers ignored the facts  and started with a sideshow.

You're the one that brought up that terrain comparison though, not me.  If you bring it up, be prepared for pushback.

[VBHB 298]

P3D had its day excited to see where MSFS is headed. MSFS actually runs better for me than P3D haha... i bought a new PC back in the day to play P3D. I won't miss those flat runways. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by VBHB

[Amon1973 1,421]

5 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Because Austin can’t match satellite and photogrammetry, with a company like Blackshark AI converting 2D satellite objects into 3D objects, for the entire world. He would probably need to partner with a company like Google for that and Google would charge him an arm and a leg.

So if it’s not possible, the next option is to downplay it.

The irony is, this satellite & photogrammetry we have now is just version 1 of this technology, and it’s already very good.  This technology will get better and more advanced over time. Satellite & photogrammetry, with conversion of 2D to 3D objects is the future, not old style autogen.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. No small to even medium flight sim dev company could afford afford all the resources that mega corporations like MS and a select few others can, mainly because they are so big that they already own the individual specialist sub companies, so things are available at very little cost, or that your company is so wealthy that you can easily afford them. LR basically have to operate with their own means.

[Amon1973 1,421]

3 hours ago, Chock said:

Given that MSFS does actually need an internet connection to be fully functional, it kind of IS a subscription sim. Last time I checked, my internet connection wasn't free; the fact that MSFS makes use of what most people would be paying for anyway for other reasons, still doesn't mean it is completely free to use it.

If were going down this route, well Xplane 12 will be sort of subscription based, because to get the live real time weather, it needs an always on internet connection, and then there's all the updates, in this regard MSFS and XP12 have a lot of similarities. 

[omarsmak30 4,068]

Another opinion, isn't these kind of threads getting boring? I mean is almost the same discussion as always 😅

[VBHB 298]

I wouldn't think X-Planers care about photogammetry etc as they always love to boast about how MSFS is just a pretty game and X-Plane is a true simulation due to the flight modelling etc. Let them enjoy their lifeless world. I'll enjoy my beautiful views in the Fenix...

Edited June 6, 2022 by VBHB

[VBHB 298]

Just now, JYW said:

So yeah, the MSFS post count exceeded the P3D post count.......

.....becomes a vitriolic rant against Austin / X-Plane (which was not even the sim the post referred to), tons of fanciful conjecture (including Austin personall running out of money), and a charming gent who calls a fellow user "the most pathetic person here".

Nice.

 

Yeah aviation enthusiasts love gossip there's nothing much to do waiting for top of descent!!

[mwilk 1,106]

Was there a contest and I missed it? Shoot, story of my life.

[flying_carpet 657]

 

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

You're the one that brought up that terrain comparison though, not me.  If you bring it up, be prepared for pushback.

You are trying very hard to misunderstand. Or doing it even by purpose. Dare I say you are very successful, in doing so? 😀 Anyway ... What you (purposely?) ignored ... and to avoid further misunderstandings:

2 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

* I mean "immersion" of being a pilot, who has to fly, navigate, ... an aircraft and in case of failures has to handle them. Just recently during an approach in bad weather (i.e. cloudy and stormy - BTW with turbulences within the clouds, what I haven't seen in MSFS) and on the glideslope, BADABOOM ... suddenly I lost the ILS indicator. So, what to do? In reality I had to do a go around, however I continued because the worst what can happen is, that I bend some pixels on my screen. Fortunately some hundred feet above ground, the runway came in sight, so I could land safely. After the landing I had a look into the failures and realized, it wasn't the receiver in my plane ... but the ILS transmitter. Yes!! This is simulated in X-Plane. And muuuch more.

Of course not everyone wants to do such things and is happy flying from A to B with not disturbance and there's nothing wrong with it. Simply different audience.

 

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

No, please don't compare XP ortho to the satellite & photogrammetry that MSFS uses, including the conversion of 2D satellite objects to 3D objects by Blackshark AI.  The terrain that MSFS generates is vastly superior to XP.  And for me, this is what makes MSFS 10 years more advanced than XP.

There is no comparison for me.  It's not even a competition.  And as a bonus, I don't have to waste extra money buying an extra hard drive just to store ortho.

The oldest (still) downloadable X-Plane version I could find is V 9 (published in 2008). Even there navaid failures are simulated - possibly even earlier *. So, dare I say, X-Plane is (minimum) 14 years ahead?
* V 6 (published 2001) which I got from a fellow simmer at the x-plane.org-forum hasn't had navaid failures yet, but instrument failures (see below). So, dare I say, X-Plane is 21 years ahead? Of course not in the visuals (for obvious reasons), but in these simulation features. If you don't care about such stuff - nothing wrong with it and fine with me ...

https://postimg.cc/5YgVFwn0

 

[OzWhitey 3,353]

11 hours ago, turbomax said:

. compared to "real games" that sell millions of copies on release day (Grand Theft Auto and many other AAA titles) FSX has always been a tiny niche

Not remotely true, though I’ve seen this posted as gospel on Avsim dozens of times over the years.

Microsoft Flight Simulator was always a marquee title back in the day. One of the tests of whether your computer was really IBM compatible was whether it would run this program.

New iterations were talked about in the general press, so the game was always culturally significant. There weren’t many people who knew anything about computers who hadn’t heard of MS’s sim.

Move on to FS9, and Flight Simulator sold north of 2 million copies.

FSX made the top 10 for games sales in both 2006 and 2007.

Things got bit dicey once MS ditched the franchise, but between FSX:SE, Flight Sim World, Prepar3d and MS Flight, the sim has never been out of action since Bruce Artwick released it back in the dark ages. It’s been a good seller and is one of the most significant series in the history of computer gaming.