To me, there's really no downside to using Vatsim.  I don't chase the ATC coverage.  If it's there, excellent.  If it's not, whatever...maybe someone will come on in time for my arrival / approach.  I wasn't going to use the in-game ATC anyway, so it's not like I'm missing out on anything. 

Also, unless it's really busy with VATSIM traffic in the area I plan to fly, I usually still turn on Live Traffic just to keep the skies populated.   

In terms of immersion, it doesn't get much better than getting ATC for an entire flight, in VR.

VATSIM-user and RW pilot here (GA)

If you can find staffed sectors throughout your route, very few flights could feel more "immersive" (save for a real co-pilot). Truly adds a new level to simming.

95%  of the traffic (just a quick guesstimate from me) are IFR jets, very realistic procedures, but UNICOM (which we don't have in Scandinavia) can be hit and a miss. it's usually on this frequency you realize most simmers skipped the class in proper radiotelephony at untowered airfields. 🤡

2 hours ago, GAJ52 said:

I don't use Vatsim very often, usually GA VFR.

On one occasion I flew the PMDG 737-800 from Faro to Gatwick and the ATC was very good until I got to Gatwick.  I was just about to turn onto finals on 08R when Gatwick Tower said they were clocking off and told me to go to Unicom.  To say I was furious is an understatement, I flew all the way from Faro to Gatwick having a good Vatsim experience which was totally wrecked by this Tower Controller saying they could not be bothered allowing me to land under Vatsim control.  I brought my dissatisfaction to the Vatsim forum and was told quite 'tersely' that Vatsim controllers are volunteers and could sign off whenever they wanted to.  I fully appreciate that, but having a pilot on finals why couldn't he remain in the Control Tower until I had landed, this is a hobby for both ATC controllers and Pilots.

I might be over reacting but after this incident my enthusiasm for Vatsim quickly declined, both with the Controllers actions and the reply I got from the Vatsim forum.

This comment cant be serious! Reminds me of some people over on Facebook who were not pleased because they didnt get a free dessert on their birthday.

I’ve actually used default ATC since the launch of MSFS. Never tried VATSIM. Is there some sort of training course you need to complete? I’ve got a PPL from years back (not current). Are the controllers somewhat tolerant of newbie mistakes? Just wondering how tricky it would be to get started. 

56 minutes ago, hansb57 said:

This comment cant be serious! Reminds me of some people over on Facebook who were not pleased because they didnt get a free dessert on their birthday.

Some people think the world revolves around them 😉

2 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

I'd say: There's nothing to lose with Vatsim. It's a bonus. Plan your flights as you would (like Bob I do them all over the world), and if there's ATC on Vatsim, great, if not, you do whatever you would do without Vatsim (like offline ATC or whatever). It's not a either/or decision, you can always connect in the middle of your flight and land with Vatsim, when a controller got online.

This doesn't work so well though since most ATC addons that I'm aware of won't let you start the flight at cruising altitude. You could go from offline ATC to Vatsim ATC but not the other way around. Given the lack of coverage (which is natural) I still find it more immersive to have offline ATC including talking to AI aircraft throughout the entire flight rather than have one or two or even three controllers talk to me at my origin and then basically fly into silence like in a post-apocalyptic world. As amazing as full Vatsim coverage can be, it just isn't worth flying 'alone' to me for the most part just to have a few controllers talk to me at some point.

Another thing is workload. Personally I always fly with MCE to have an extensive crew simulation that also handles ATC via PF3 for me as IRL. This made clear to me how high the workload can be in critical phases of flight and how it helps to have the PM handle ATC comms. If I depart out of a busy airport, calling for clean up, after T/O checklist, A/P mode changes, heading, altitude changes, etc. I have no idea how I'm supposed to listen and talk to Vatsim ATC at the same time too. That's hard enough and prone to errors and if I only miss or misunderstand one instruction I'd probably lose all grip on the situation. That's like simulating one pilot incapacitated scenarios. 😄

Edited June 16, 20223 yr by threegreen

24 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I’ve actually used default ATC since the launch of MSFS. Never tried VATSIM. Is there some sort of training course you need to complete? I’ve got a PPL from years back (not current). Are the controllers somewhat tolerant of newbie mistakes? Just wondering how tricky it would be to get started. 

If you can use default ATC, you should be able to tolerate anything. 😉

18 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I’ve actually used default ATC since the launch of MSFS. Never tried VATSIM. Is there some sort of training course you need to complete? I’ve got a PPL from years back (not current). Are the controllers somewhat tolerant of newbie mistakes? Just wondering how tricky it would be to get started. 

No no training course, I think you have to answer some really basic questions in an online survey, that's all.
If you got a PPL you know how to talk on the radio and you know what to expect from ATC, so you'll be fine. Certainly not a newbie!
Anyway yes, they are extremely tolerant, EXCEPT for when you fly into an event with 200 aircraft around you and then do something like land on the wrong runway or not readback anything. Then you might get yelled at (at least in the german airspace ;)).
But apart from that they are really nice and helpful. Just do them and yourself a favour and say "say again" as often as you need to. Don't just do what you *think* they were saying because you are too shy to ask again, because this will get (virtual) people killed.
Basically there's just one single thing you need to do very well: Know how to handle your aircraft. If you get a vector and have to google for how to use the heading knob... don't go on Vatsim yet 😉

By the way you can do your first flights in "observer mode". You fly normally, but are invisible to the others, so you can just tune into the frequency and listen and learn, while doing your normal flight.

Just now, threegreen said:

This doesn't work so well though since most ATC addons that I'm aware of won't let you start the flight at cruising altitude. You could go from offline ATC to Vatsim ATC but not the other way around. Given the lack of coverage (which is natural) I still find it more immersive to have offline ATC including talking to AI aircraft throughout the entire flight rather than have one or two or even three controllers talk to me at my origin and then basically fly into silence like in a post-apocalyptic world.

Another thing is workload. Personally I always fly with MCE to have an extensive crew simulation that also handles ATC via PF3 for me as IRL. This made clear to me how high the workload can be in critical phases of flight and how it helps to have the PM handle ATC comms. If I depart out of a busy airport, calling for clean up, after T/O checklist, A/P mode changes, heading, altitude changes, etc. I have no idea how I'm supposed to listen and talk to Vatsim ATC at the same time too. That's hard enough and prone to errors and if I only miss or misunderstand one instruction I'd probably lose all grip on the situation. That's like simulating one pilot incapacitated scenarios. 😄

Well you can always use the MSFS ATC and just mute it / not answer anymore when you go "online". Also Pilot2ATC at least allows you to "start" the flight at in the air. It's really flexible.

3 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Well you can always use the MSFS ATC and just mute it / not answer anymore when you go "online"

Yes, but using the default MSFS ATC would entail... using the default MSFS ATC. 😄

17 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

If you can use default ATC, you should be able to tolerate anything. 😉

Good one Bob! 😅

By the way does PF3 control AI traffic?

19 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I’ve got a PPL from years back

You're already way ahead of the game with that PPL. WAY ahead.

Here's a link to the VATSIM Learning Center. I think you'll need to register as a user in order to gain access.

https://my.vatsim.net/learn

Have a look at the New Member Orientation Course, as well as the Master Class section. You need the vPilot client for MSFS, but that's about it. Go to an airport with some traffic and a controller, login and just sit on the ramp to listen to the radio comms. As a pilot, you'll quickly recognize the jargon and catch on. I should add here that one does not need a real life license to participate as a VATSIM pilot. Far from it. 

VATSIM is a learning environment for all concerned. Enjoy it for what it is. We all make mistakes and that's OK. We're all trying to get better.

Cheers.

25 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

No no training course, I think you have to answer some really basic questions in an online survey, that's all.
If you got a PPL you know how to talk on the radio and you know what to expect from ATC, so you'll be fine. Certainly not a newbie!
Anyway yes, they are extremely tolerant, EXCEPT for when you fly into an event with 200 aircraft around you and then do something like land on the wrong runway or not readback anything. Then you might get yelled at (at least in the german airspace ;)).
But apart from that they are really nice and helpful. Just do them and yourself a favour and say "say again" as often as you need to. Don't just do what you *think* they were saying because you are too shy to ask again, because this will get (virtual) people killed.
Basically there's just one single thing you need to do very well: Know how to handle your aircraft. If you get a vector and have to google for how to use the heading knob... don't go on Vatsim yet 😉

By the way you can do your first flights in "observer mode". You fly normally, but are invisible to the others, so you can just tune into the frequency and listen and learn, while doing your normal flight.

Thanks! I’m quite proficient handling the A320, should be okay there. And probably a good idea to start off in observer mode. Then perhaps a relatively “quiet” airport rather than plunging into an event at EDDF and becoming completely flustered.

11 minutes ago, jrw4 said:

VATSIM is a learning environment for all concerned. Enjoy it for what it is. We all make mistakes and that's OK. We're all trying to get better.

 

Thanks! I think I’m ready to give it a try 🙂

33 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Good one Bob! 😅

By the way does PF3 control AI traffic?

No, other than taxiing