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Tim_FSD

FSD-International...no wonder folks get angry.

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Hey...I've sat on the sidelines during numerous FSD debates. I own every one of their planes, and all in all I think they're a pretty good bunch of blokes, but...Yesterday, I decided to take up their offer for a free upgrade to my FSD C337 for FSX. The C337 has been my default A/C in FS9 for a year or so, and I thought it would be nice to be able to fly such an excellent A/C in FSX. Downloaded the update, gave my license number, got activated, and was able to install. Everything worked great in FSX, and that is how it should be, right?Trouble is, this a.m., when I decided to fire up FS9, and take my little Cessna for a spin, I got a challenge window from FSD, insisting that I had to activate my FS9 C337 which had been activated for over a year or so. Ok, a hassle, but no problem. It even knew my license number and password and all that was left for me to do was hit "OK".10 minutes later, watching the "activating " message just spin and spin, and realizing that at least for now, I'm locked out of FS9 (won't boot with a unlicensed default A/C), I'm pretty much disappointed to say the least, considering how I installed an A/C on FSX, NOT FS9, and never asked their installer to touch or inspect my FS9 installation.Sigh...ecommerce at it's worst. Like I said, it's no wonder that folks get angry.I'll now follow-up with FSD support, but I just had to vent my frustrations here at the forum. I'm sure this will get sorted out, of that I have no doubt.bt

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what you have desribed seems like the C337 FSX installer 'hijacked' the reg. enteries for the FS9 install. common issue really. if you search the FS9 & FSX forums you will see many 'odd' errors that relate to this issue with other FS9 & FSX addons.i'm sure FSD will find and share a work-around/correction for their licensed product owners.--

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They're entitled to be paranaoid, but not to the extent that it impacts on their legitimate customers in any way, shape or form. Their FSX installer did the same to me. I fixed it. If their aircraft were worth all the hassle then it might be something we'd live with. Allcott

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>They're entitled to be paranaoid, but not to the extent that>it impacts on their legitimate customers in any way, shape or>form. >>Their FSX installer did the same to me. I fixed it. >>If their aircraft were worth all the hassle then it might be>something we'd live with. >>Allcott"If their aircraft were worth all the hassle then it might be>something we'd live with. "thats the Key. If I had to go through hoops for say the PMDG 747. I would. But for a GA aircraft that has no electronic avionics as such? #### No!:)Manny

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That's ridiculous. FSD's flight modeling is among the finest and with piracy being rampant you can't blame them for having good protection. If people would take the time to understand how their computers work then they would detect the origin of and one way or another be able to resolve such problems with limited hassle. And if you like the aircraft they render then it is worth going through the hoops.

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Oh please... Its more like Ugly betty wearing a chastity belt!:)Manny

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Manny, I respect your opinion, but it is yours alone. Don't try to push it on me. I love to fly, and the less complicated it is to fly the better it is for me.WM, well, that's a nice thought, but, not a lot of people have the time, technical background, or patience to figure out these issues. Imagine if you were driving along and all of a sudden your steering wheel collapses. Well, it only happens to 5% of users, and if those 5% knew how it worked, it wouldn't have happened.That's not how we expect things to work. Nirvana will be reached when computers just work. This is the complaint people have had with copy protection since computers first came out. No matter what, it's gonna break. Number one rule in customer retention is to make sure they don't have to jump through hoops when there is a problem.Case in point, is Flight One. I've bought many products from them and several have had installation problems at one time or another. But I've always immediately gotten help and back up and running right away. I'm a happy customer with them.With FSD, I was very disappointed with a purchase I made from them. They didn't care. Caveat Emptor. I won't be going back any time soon. I don't trust them. I'm certainly intrigued by some of their products, but it will take a lot to push me over the edge to purchase.But in their minds, they don't care, there are plenty of other people out there and they must be getting the return on investment they are looking for. Good for them.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

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The fact is computers don't just work and it behooves most to act accordingly, if they can't or won't pay someone to do it for them. The steering wheel analogy is a bit much, I think, since cars tend to be more reliable than software, and cost more so professional help is seen as coming with the territory. Maybe FSD's customer support has a less than pristine record but I strongly believe they are trying their best now. In terms of copy protection, I think it's necessary to make it robust for fs add ons as the market is comparatively small. Also, FSD publishes their own material, whereas Flight1 is a bigger player, particularly with their e-commerce system. As to Manny's remark, clever but I was talking about the FSD flight modeling. If appearance were the standard then captainsim would be revered above pmdg, who incidentally lost my favor with the recent debacle.I'm all for flight1, though.

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>Hey...I've sat on the sidelines during numerous FSD debates. >I own every one of their planes, and all in all I think>they're a pretty good bunch of blokes, but...>>Yesterday, I decided to take up their offer for a free upgrade>to my FSD C337 for FSX. The C337 has been my default A/C in>FS9 for a year or so, and I thought it would be nice to be>able to fly such an excellent A/C in FSX. Downloaded the>update, gave my license number, got activated, and was able to>install. Everything worked great in FSX, and that is how it>should be, right?>>Trouble is, this a.m., when I decided to fire up FS9, and take>my little Cessna for a spin, I got a challenge window from>FSD, insisting that I had to activate my FS9 C337 which had>been activated for over a year or so. Ok, a hassle, but no>problem. It even knew my license number and password and all>that was left for me to do was hit "OK".>>10 minutes later, watching the "activating " message just spin>and spin, and realizing that at least for now, I'm locked out>of FS9 (won't boot with a unlicensed default A/C), I'm pretty>much disappointed to say the least, considering how I>installed an A/C on FSX, NOT FS9, and never asked their>installer to touch or inspect my FS9 installation.>>Sigh...ecommerce at it's worst. Like I said, it's no wonder>that folks get angry.>>I'll now follow-up with FSD support, but I just had to vent my>frustrations here at the forum. I'm sure this will get sorted>out, of that I have no doubt.>>btBraun,There is nothing with respect to and individual aircraft not loading that will shut down you entire simulator, unless you have your default flight setup to load it. In this case you can simply change the default flight within the FS 9 configuration files, and we would be happy to show you how to do that.The other problem you are experiencing is likely due to some kind of software environment problem, which I am sure we can also help you correct. We have in fact already sent you some suggestions. I just find it a bit regrettable that you chose to post this before even contacting us for help. We will be more than happy to assist you.Tim Dickenshttp://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

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Hi Tim...thanks for the note. Everything is fine now, and I planned on posting that fact today. As I mentioned in my post the C337 was (is) my default A/C "The C337 has been my default A/C inFS9 for a year or so".After a tip to rename my FS9.cfg, I took it a step further and went into the .cfg and commented out my startup situation, which made everythihg "Ok", I could now run FS9, albeit without the C337...that still needed fixing. To do that I downloaded your most current FS9 install, reinstalled and now all is cool. (my old install, dated only 9 months ago reported it was missing components and told me to go get the current version...an artifact of your DRM I'm sure)Two points to make...my beef is not with your DRM, I completely understand your use of it. My beef is when DRM goes and touches other software components on my system without warning or consent.As to my post, I can understand your regret, I'm sure you can understand my frustration. Also, as an aside, while you may be convinced the problem is in my system, I'm equally convinced it is an artifact of your DRM, as I stated above, clearly demonstrated by the following facts:* Works before the FSX upgrade* Fails after* Reinstall tells me the FSD installer is no longer valid, go get the new one* Reinstall with the new one fixes the problem...hence the problem was caused by your DRM, not my system.Best,bt

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>That's ridiculous. FSD's flight modeling is among the finest>and with piracy being rampant you can't blame them for having>good protection. If people would take the time to understand>how their computers work then they would detect the origin of>and one way or another be able to resolve such problems with>limited hassle. And if you like the aircraft they render then>it is worth going through the hoops. They hardly ever fix anything!

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"*They* would detect" meaning *you*, the computer operator, not FSD. 3/4 of the complaints I have seen recently about FSD's products not working have been from those jumping the gun: those not making an effort to diagnose a simple problem like the need to download the latest installer or run the load manager.

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Which leaves the other 1/4 - and the reality of the problems being not as claimed by FSD - frankly, totally unacceptable. I go with BT over an FSD spokesman, especially as I had the exact-same problem. And it was not my system that caused it. I can state that unequivocally. It is unacceptable that installing one product should affect another. You might understand it when it affects two different products from separate manufacturers, but it is NOT acceptable when installing the FSX C337 renders the FS9 version unusable without a reinstallation. What was the FSX installer doing making any changes that affect the GS9 product anyway. At the very least, if they want to show us it is opur systems, then tell us how you know this, and the procedure by whcih you proved it was not the installer. Because the procedure I used - and BT - shows that FSD are mistaken, or worse.FSD show this wonderful attitude toward their paying customers - `It's your system, not our software...` but seem somehow to fail to show how they know that is actually the case - which is why they have to remove the increasing number of replies in their forum that begin "This is the first report we've had of this.." A heck of alot of `firsts` disappear from their site.The installer is simply not good enough, and the solution is to fix it, not blame the customer. Accusation and proof are two different concepts in everyones vocabulary except FSD's it seems. Allcott

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Allcott, Well as far as I know you have that right - the FSD procedure is to negate old installs with new ones. Reading between the lines, installs are cracked and so they develop new ones. At the same time, they chose to force users with old installs to adopt the new installers in order to combat piracy, or partial-piracy.This approach sounds worse than it is. As you probably know, it is very common. Software companies, for instance, blacklist serials and counteract cracks all the time with updates, like sp1's neutralization of the fsx activation crack which many legitimate owners used. FSD's problem is that they are dealing with an add on aircraft, not a program itself; that they have resorted to more invasive methods of protecting their intellectual property is I think a result of this difference. Flight1's license system is more kind, but maybe FSD doesn't want to have to pay more than 10% for the service:http://www.flight1.com/view.asp?page=developers#wrapper"Actually no. You can keep as much as 88% of your sales price." And I'm guessing the FSD system is more robust too for its insidiousness, since it appears to mess with the system registry rather than rely primarily on a wrapping method.But, IMO, their protection is not as mean as starforce or drm. I forgive them because they are a small company.As you say, though, maybe they should go back to the drawing board on this issue.

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So is the Seneca II going to be worth the hassle??? I've been hesitating to make my first purchase from FSD...Best Regards, Donald T. :-waveFLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

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Hi Shalamar...if you are directing that question to me, and not just to the rhetorical few, my answer would be yes, in all probablity you would be pleased with a purchase from FSD.As I said in my original post, I own every FSD aircraft. Not the majority, not most, but every one. There are only three other vendors whom I vote my support with $$$ so strongly, and they are:* Flight1* RealAir* PMDGSo again, if you're asking me, I'd say yes, it's worth it.bt

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That makes two of us :-)Add to it (very recently) Schockwave Productions and Aeroplane Heaven!Regarding the quality of FSD products I should say that it is top-notch!!! Although many people complain about their support I never had any problem with it - quite on the contrary... given that I am a complete mess at mantaining software and systems (at home!!!). Reinstalling products was never a problem to me either.Go ahead - you will NOT be disappointed!

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Thanx for the replies. Now it is just a question of do I want both the RealAir Duke when it comes out and the Seneca now...Hmmm, now and later...I may just reach for my wallet now...Best regards, Donny :-waveFLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

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Braun,Glad everythig is OK now.I don't think your problem had anything to do with the license validation/management. Based on the way you describe the sequence of events it sounds like something corrupted your registry data for the aircraft. Reinstallation simply repaired that.Never hesitate to contact us when you need help.Tim Dickenshttp://www.fsd-international.com/team/TD_forum_sig.gif

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If all of you who think FSD has a CS problem, then I have to say that you haven't seen Customer Service that is anywhere near as bad as the Aerosoft Group! That bunch of pedantic, overrated crooks are really who need to be placed under the international trade agreement scope. Without ever buying an aircraft from them, you can see how terrible their CS is just by reading some of the forum member's questions in the "support", (a laughable term when it comes to Aerosoft), sections. The real kick in the head is all their so-called "Award-Winning" Aircraft. The same people who own, work for, and/or represent Aerosoft are found as members in the very places that the Aerosoft team claims they have been recognized for this 'great' <choke> honor. I'm surpised their arms aren't broken from patting themselves on the back as much as they do, (just read their rediculous ads). So if you want to measure how bad the CS of any add-on company is, use the Aerosoft CS as a comparison marker. An occasional mistake or oversight by anyone is acceptable as far as I'm concerned. No one is perfect and when it comes to MSFS's coding, it is amazing that the programmers have it down as well as they do. But when the CS is CONTINUOUSLY rude and feels that they can claim whatever they want in their ads with impunity, and their best and most common replies to the paying customer is "Read the Manual" and "Your computer system is the problem, not us", then they should be sued into the stone age!

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