48 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

MS/Asobo never have said such things about how their features (including this new CFD stuff) are the best or the most realistic or whatever other self-congratulatory terms, nor have they said anything about XP except for wishing the XP team well on the release of v12.

Huh...Forgot, maybe? You know full well that is not the case because I have personally sent you the SDK links in the past and explained what was in them. When it was first released, the SDK explicitly called out LR. By name. It has since been modified, albeit inaccurately, in a wonderfully slanderous way. Now, who reads the SDK? 3rd party devs do.

Nor does one have to explicitly name specific entities to be slanderous.

No, M$ is no saint. By any stretch of the imagination. In fact, given Meyer's battles against patent trolls, I'd give him a pass any day. But that's not flight sim fodder.

Edited November 8, 20223 yr by blingthinger

2 hours ago, blingthinger said:

Huh...Forgot, maybe? You know full well that is not the case because I have personally sent you the SDK links in the past and explained what was in them. When it was first released, the SDK explicitly called out LR. By name. It has since been modified, albeit inaccurately, in a wonderfully slanderous way. Now, who reads the SDK? 3rd party devs do.

Nor does one have to explicitly name specific entities to be slanderous.

No, M$ is no saint. By any stretch of the imagination. In fact, given Meyer's battles against patent trolls, I'd give him a pass any day. But that's not flight sim fodder.

You seem to be having odd and mixed memories, I've never corresponded you with personally before lol... In any case, nobody's minds are being changed here on the MSFS forums about whatever we feel about MSFS and/or XP and/or Meyer and whatever else. But it's adorable though how XP fans who dislike MS and/or MSFS seem to be diligently monitoring these forums, and then seem to get all triggered and worked up when MSFS fans discuss and laud all the great advancements in this sim :), especially around any topics that are not related to visuals. One wonders why 🙂 , well actually no need to wonder as we know why.
 

This forum desperately needs a "No mention of X-Plane or P3D under any circumstances. Violators will be suspended without warning." policy. It would eliminate about 20 pages of arguments a month.

2 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

You seem to be having odd and mixed memories, I've never corresponded you with personally before lol... In any case, nobody's minds are being changed here on the MSFS forums about whatever we feel about MSFS and/or XP and/or Meyer and whatever else. But it's adorable though how XP fans who dislike MS and/or MSFS seem to be diligently monitoring these forums, and then seem to get all triggered and worked up when MSFS fans discuss and laud all the great advancements in this sim :), especially around any topics that are not related to visuals. One wonders why 🙂 , well actually no need to wonder as we know why.

Wasn't private communication. It was in the open forum. Such conveniently short term memory. Or maybe it goes hand in hand with your inability to stay on target here. We'll assume the latter.

So, returning to CFD: as you pointed out earlier, the CFD model suffers from the fact that the geometry being simulated doesn't actually represent the actual airframe. Unless you're flying a balsa glider:

 Neither does the force element model. Actually the pic from the SDK pic is a lie. That or the SDK text is wrong: it states that the wings are actually straight hershey bars, unlike the sweep shown:

Now, don't get me wrong. Balsa gliders are cute. And now that Asobo has glider capability in place, this makes some sense if you wanted to simulate that kind of flight. Has Asobo mentioned anything about this being changed? Will the flight model ever actually represent the airframe in any meaningful sense?

4 minutes ago, WestAir said:

This forum desperately needs a "No mention of X-Plane or P3D under any circumstances. Violators will be suspended without warning." policy. It would eliminate about 20 pages of arguments a month.

This is funny. In this case, it was the M$S$ fan that wanted to talk competition.

23 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Wasn't private communication. It was in the open forum. Such conveniently short term memory.

You expect me to remember forum thread interactions from the past lol?? Sorry, don't remember given the number of threads and posts I've been on, but honored that you remember though! Listen, you don't seem to quite understand a great many things about MSFS, and perhaps you can query the devs at the next Q&A or whatever (though I suspect it's more a case of trying to push narratives about MSFS). I sadly have no more patience to respond further or educate you tonite 🙂 .. just one friendly piece of advice: monitor the MSFS forums a bit less maybe, might help you with your inability to not get tweaked as much by what MSFS fans/users talk about MSFS.
 

Edited November 8, 20223 yr by lwt1971

15 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

You expect me to remember forum thread interactions from the past lol?? Sorry, don't remember given the number of threads and posts I've been on, but honored that you remember though!

Expect? You think folks on here expect things from you? Loosen that grip a bit, yo!!

I do remember that one, actually. A few months back. It's not often that a M$F$ fan such as yourself actually seems to want to know the dirt on their targets of affection and devotion. But hey, now we all know how you drive your interactions with others after knowing the facts.

 

18 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

I sadly have no more patience

Your magnanimity is always a pleasure to observe.

Its good to see Asobo moving and advancing.

I would hope that instead of updating or adding anything into the sim that they fix known bugs/issues first. Ah oh well.

Mods, can you do something about @blingthinger?  And please don't lock this thread, just because @blingthinger has come into to this thread and derailed it.  Here are some of @blingthinger comments in this thread which are pretty triggering:

31 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

I do remember that one, actually. A few months back. It's not often that a M$F$ fan such as yourself actually seems to want to know the dirt on their targets of affection and devotion. But hey, now we all know how you drive your interactions with others after knowing the facts.

 

5 hours ago, blingthinger said:

That said, when I see M$/Asobo claiming it's ground-breaking, I shake the head. So much marketing hot air.... And then it gets parroted over and over again...much like XP fans mentioning NASA (actually, you drew that conclusion: brilliant word association by the way)

I'm just gonna say, if I went into the XP forums here at Avsim, and I started trash talking about Austin, and I riled up a lot of the XP posters there, one of the mods in the XP forum would have suspended or warned me too. And yes, I have a lot of negative things to say about Austin and his behavior over the last 2 years, but I keep those things to myself when I go to the XP forum to post, out of the respect to the XP users there.

So why can XP posters here come to the MSFS forum, derail the thread, and trash talk the MSFS team while derailing the thread, and get away with it?  This is a double standard, IMO.

And here you have @blingthinger derailing this thread already, and getting the other posters in this forum riled up.

@Bob Scott or one of the other mods, can you do something about these XP posters that come in here, use language like this to rile people up, and derail threads like this?  (also, please don't lock this thread or at least let me make a new thread on this, it's silly how threads like this can get locked by XP posters that come in here and derail threads like this)

Edited November 8, 20223 yr by abrams_tank

1 hour ago, WestAir said:

This forum desperately needs a "No mention of X-Plane or P3D under any circumstances. Violators will be suspended without warning." policy. It would eliminate about 20 pages of arguments a month.

I don't think we should ever go in that direction where we self censor ourselves and we can't talk about another simulator. We just need to keep it civil and keep things real. But look at some of the language used by the aforementioned XP fan here. Like I said, if I went into the XP forums here at Avsim and I started trash talking about Austin, I would probably get suspended or warned rather quickly.

Why is there a double standard? Why can XP users come here in the MSFS forum and trash talk about the MSFS team, and rile up the posters here in the MSFS forum?

 

Edited November 8, 20223 yr by abrams_tank

There really is no excuse for Xplane's poor looking ground textures at this point, it shows a lack of confidence or an overtly risk-adverse investment approach.
They should have at least been able to get the graphics up to about Star Citizen world level, I mean the tech is way beyond even SC level, they made bad choices. They still never hired a terrain expert, and it shows they aren't willing to compete at the MSFS level. From the videos I saw, they didn't use any low altitude custom terrain textures and blending like Asobo does, nor do the trees look especially that great. Basing it on the True Earth Washington videos I've seen using Xplane 12. 

I don't mean this as a direct insult to the Xplane guys, but I could have built a better looking generic terrain myself by following a 2 hour tutorial (and I'm not even an expert at Terrain mapping). They didn't invest much time into the textures at all, they didn't even try. All they did was the same old junk, let's release a modified version of XP 11, call it XP 12, and NOW we can compete with MSFS. No, you are not competing against MSFS, you are now a niche specialty product.

I could also criticize MSFS and say I'm really sick of the poor blending and the way custom polygons work when trying to fix it. MSFS doesn't invest enough time in tweaking the textures either, but at least MSFS has a BASE model that will work in the end (if they ever fix it), and MSFS has SOME places that look incredible in the game (many places really). Just they need to fix some of those terrible blending issues.

Edited November 8, 20223 yr by Alpine Scenery

I think the takeaway point from all this is Asobo's implementation of CFD has most importance to how wind is affected by large ground features and is nowhere near fine enough to address accurately the specific flight dynamics of airframe designs that are even moderately similar.

Having that degree of finess realtime is asomewhat  beyond a home PC that is also performing the other tasks involved in running the sim.

I tried making that point months ago in the MSFS Discord  and got the usual tag team attack from the zealots and mods

Edited November 8, 20223 yr by Sceadu
speeling

4 hours ago, blingthinger said:

This is funny. In this case, it was the M$S$ fan that wanted to talk competition.

Nothing says "this is a serious guy with serious opinions" more than spelling MS and MSFS with a dollar sign like it's the Slashdot comment section circa 1998.

Edited November 8, 20223 yr by Scottoest

3 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

I don't think we should ever go in that direction where we self censor ourselves and we can't talk about another simulator. We just need to keep it civil and keep things real. But look at some of the language used by the aforementioned XP fan here. Like I said, if I went into the XP forums here at Avsim and I started trash talking about Austin, I would probably get suspended or warned rather quickly.

Why is there a double standard? Why can XP users come here in the MSFS forum and trash talk about the MSFS team, and rile up the posters here in the MSFS forum?

 

Exactly abrams, and I have been posting comparisons / critics here and at the xp forums, as well as you do, and although I do not have the same perspective on what you sometimes focus when talking about these sims, most of the time I agree with what you post because you try to write it in a polite way.

Sometimes we fail of course, but for me it is natural to bring comparisons, and it's actually good, unless you have my mental neural net and start uninstalling everything 🙂

As I have pointed out, I try to use just one sim, and I have to be honest and admit that I would like to be able to quit using MFS or XP12 and concentrate in only one of the two, but I can't because there are so more positive aspects regarding what I really appreciate in a flightsim on both platforms compared to negative ones that I have to be practical and fight this stupid tendency of mine for sim monogamy 🙂

While I have been enjoying XP12 better then any previous version of XP, I am also enjoying MFS a LOT better than any of it's previous versions, although I do recall like if it was yesterday the first time I loaded FS5.0a in a desktop at work, because by that time I didn't have a Windows desktop at home. WOW it was simply AMAZING!  Then many years after, I experienced that some sensation with MS FLIGHT, and now I am kind of living a daydream everytime I do an airline flight simulation in MFS, and think to myself that I couldn't even imagine I would be able to play with such detail in scenery and weather rendering 5 years ago.

I'll have to learn to enjoy both, and it's easy if I try to block my UNINSTALL OCD 🙂

I am so enthusiastic about trying SU11 40th with all of the GREAT aircraft that it'll bring, and at the same time so enthusiastic for instance regarding how XP12 is also progressing, and how dedicated the LR team is nowadays to work on new features and in ironing bugs and inconsistencies in the betas that instead of feeling bad about this or that sim I should rather be kissing my keyboard 🙂

Edited November 8, 20223 yr by jcomm

I honestly don't care what sim people use or like - it's a hobby we engage in to while away the hours of our fleeting lives, not a holy war.

What gets annoying are the XP (and it's almost always XP) evangelists who seem to lurk this subforum like a loitering UAV, waiting to find some mention of their software of choice that pays it undue reverence so they can swan dive in and gleefully garbage up the thread in question.