17 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I followed that with the same flight in MSFS fully updated to SU11.  The comparison is interesting because in some respects MSFS should win hands down, but it doesn't for me.

I see this a lot in the XP forums. "I flew this flight in XP, and immediately jump in MSFS to fly the same flight. It was so much better in xplane." Why the constant comparison like that that? If you do the comparison and the experience was way better in MSFS, I highly doubt it would be posted here. And if it was, you'd be told to go fly that other sim then. I don't see in the other forum, user saying I flew in MSFS and then jumped in xplane to compare. This is interesting to me. 

15 hours ago, mSparks said:

If I was to spend some time on MSFS, I'd be getting an xbox series X for my next console.

@mSparks Out of curiosity have you flown MSFS yet? It would be interesting to get your take especially after 3rd party helicopter are added using the new flight model.

Seems VR is very important to you. How is your FPS in VR, I see many prominent users in the XP community saying they have given up on xp12 due to performance in VR.

19 hours ago, mSparks said:

I do kinda prefer the new format, even if it does feel a little "borrowed".

I had the same thought here also. But I think this format worked well. I do think they need to borrow a few more things, like roadmaps for the future. We already know the roadmap for the entire 2023 year in MSFS from the last DEV stream. The topic of roadmaps/timelines were asked in the stream and Austin said they didn't want to do timelines. I do think knowing what is upcoming creates excitement, and even lowers expectations for some features. Timeline dates can slip, you just need to announce it and adjust your roadmap accordingly.

Maybe they even need to borrow the "SDK Dev Updates" too. SDK is another weakpoint for xplane as far as I can tell.

Overall, it was a good stream.  Austin seemed a bit more humbled this time around. 

Edited November 28, 20223 yr by brinx

5 hours ago, brinx said:

I see this a lot in the XP forums. "I flew this flight in XP, and immediately jump in MSFS to fly the same flight. It was so much better in xplane."

My thoughts on this forum are very complimentary to MSFS as they should be, it is a fantastic sim.  As I said, MSFS should win hands down for me, but it doesn't because the XP12 lighting model looks better to me - that is why I am on this forum and enjoying XP12.  As I have said many times, both sims are on my system because I enjoy flight simming, not being a hardened supporter of just one.

This screenshot shows why I think the lighting model in XP12 does a better job.  MSFS light is 'too clean, too white', where XP12 light has depth, haze, smoke.

Jumping in to MSFS to make comparisons is complimentary to MSFS - why bother if I think MSFS is poor?

7 hours ago, brinx said:

@mSparks Out of curiosity have you flown MSFS yet? It would be interesting to get your take especially after 3rd party helicopter are added using the new flight model

I dont have it, or an xbox. My friends are all on PS4 still, but we dont game much. 

Ive thought a couple of times when I feel like a change about installing it on the wifes windows laptop which has an rtx3060 in it, but then I remember $150 for something I'll likely never use probably isnt worth it, and just fire up csgo in a different game mode...

7 hours ago, brinx said:

Seems VR is very important to you. How is your FPS in VR

Often noticeably dipping below the 60fps threshold which kinda sucks, but good enough to enjoy, last few weeks have been pretty heavy on playing with dev toys, this evening was:

last VR session was a few days ago with

which was quite the buzz surveying the crash sites afterwards. Everything coming together nicely - really exciting tbh...

7 hours ago, brinx said:

I do think they need to borrow a few more things, like roadmaps for the future

This is probably the hardest question. Its worth bearing in mind the two are in quite different stages of their life,

I think its vitally important Laminar communicate the future of new scenery more effectively to users.

As a developer I'm very clear what their priorities are and what they are working to achieve near and long term - I don't need an "openXR will be in this update by this date" estimate, its enough to know they are working on it and we'll get it when its ready.

7 hours ago, brinx said:

SDK is another weakpoint for xplane as far as I can tell.

The xplane SDK is an absolute pleasure to work with, very mature and suitable for completely inexperienced never developed before all the way to experienced teams building advanced simulations of the worlds most complex aviation systems. You don't get attention to detail like the CL650 when experienced developers have to fight against the sdk at every step.

They have the new to XP12 stuff like weather to expose, 

The weak point right now (with no clear solution) imho is bringing in new people and new ideas and getting them up to speed.

The .org is genuinely hostile to everyone that isn't already selling stuff in their store or saying nice things about the things in their store, which frightens a lot of people away.

They are also the repository of decades of other peoples work, we would all lose out massively if they went away.

FSElite have done a huge amount to fill that void in the last few years, FlightSimAssociation seems be making the right moves.

Avsim really has really fostered intelligent discussion between dissimilar people.

Probably the most important change which I almost forgot is Laminar have a developer slack now which which just started another round accepting new entrants, anyone interested there just PM me for the link or ask on the 744 discord server. No real secrets on it, but direct access to the LR team and a safe space to use words developers use for computers. 

 

Edited November 29, 20223 yr by mSparks

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Jumping in to MSFS to make comparisons is complimentary to MSFS - why bother if I think MSFS is poor?

@MrBitstFlyerIt doesn't bother me at all. You are free to do as you wish. I was simply stating my observation. In the xplane forum, I tend to see "I jumped into MSFS, to do the same flight, xplane is so much better". And the result of that test will always be, 'xplane does it better'. You will get ran out of town if you come to a different conclusion. I never really see others doing the same in MSFS forum. That is all I was saying.

Both xplane and MSFS are great sims at this point. Xplane 11 is solid. Xplane 12 has some growing to do. At the end of the day everyone should fly whatever makes them happy.

47 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Ive thought a couple of times when I feel like a change about installing it on the wifes windows laptop which has an rtx3060 in it, but then I remember $150 for something I'll likely never use probably isnt worth it, and just fire up csgo in a different game mode...

What is $150, MSFS? It's $1 to try the full game for 30 days and same price as xplane to buy standard edition.

 

59 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Avsim really has really fostered intelligent discussion between dissimilar people.

I agree with 100%. This is why I love AVSim.

 

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

The weak point right now (with no clear solution) imho is bringing in new people and new ideas and getting them up to speed.

Yes, seems like they are making an effort here though. Sometimes a new perspective can make all the difference.

10 minutes ago, brinx said:

$1 to try the full game for 30 days

I can get that much experience - if not more - of it watching other peoples youtube videos for the cost of a few annoying 5 second adverts.

Im used to the software I use being wide open, if I don't like something or something I really want doesn't work how I want, I fix it and make it "mine". xplane isnt quite "open source", but also it is everywhere it matters.

Console gaming is different, I expect zero faf there, switch on and go, have some fun with friends for a few hours.

I think it was like Feb 2019 my psplus subscription expired, the ps4 has been on like maybe twice since then, my old PC moved into the TV room and does media and XP11 on the PS4 remote, if friends come over Ill maybe give them a VR tour in a heli put some music on and we talk drink and smoke. 

Not interested in any of that subscription malarky, same will go for X-Plane if they go that route once XP12 is end of life. (an idea they were floating pre XP12 launch announcement). I pay my dues so I have it if and when I want it at sometime and anytime in the future.

11 hours ago, brinx said:

This is interesting to me.

It is interesting but not entirely surprising. I'm sure there's an underdog component there. But there's also a reaction-to-immersion that clashes with the proactive mud-slinging that trademarks the competition's pom-pom tossers. There's no question that the numbers have swayed the other way. There's no debate that streaming ortho-for-xbox won the day.

But to that point, there's also no debate that ortho looks better in XP because you can bring in higher quality images. Plain and simple. So when the trolls flap their gums about their balsa-glider flight model, etc., the users over here will respond with equal-magnitude and opposite (and stunned) reactions. 

 

11 hours ago, brinx said:

SDK is another weakpoint for xplane as far as I can tell.

How so? Documentation can be a bear sometimes, but the functionality is there in spades. Sparks' take on the CL650 is a perfect example.

 

11 hours ago, brinx said:

I do think knowing what is upcoming creates excitement, and even lowers expectations for some features.

Austin has been playing this industry game for decades now. Entirely opposite situation of Asobo, who is literally the trust-fund baby. The flight sim segment is small. He knows what works and what doesn't. For someone who personally responds to customer emails, it causes more problems than it solves. At his level of interaction with the community, the trolls are real.

Austin was more relaxed, not humbled, now that he can claim an official release date. The biggest bugs are gone or ending soon.

I WAS stunned to see him casually mention that ground scenery imagery was on the to-do list. Even if at the bottom. THAT was a different tone.

Edited November 29, 20223 yr by blingthinger

4 hours ago, mSparks said:

last VR session was a few days ago with

Combat is a market segment hole that could be filled so nicely... Never seen a red targeting diamond in the sim before. Is that new in the Tomcat?

Edited November 29, 20223 yr by blingthinger

3 hours ago, brinx said:

I never really see others doing the same in MSFS forum.

You are correct, they don't bother trying XP12, they just like to slate it outright.

On 11/27/2022 at 8:43 PM, Baber20 said:

dark cockpits are going away

-3d Rain shafts are coming

-3d volumetric low level fog is also on the way

-god rays planned

-wind and turbulence improvements coming

-weather engine will be open to 3rd party but there will be limit

-they are actively looking at satellite imagery streaming but not a top priority. They really want to improve ground scenery.

I’ve been told a hundred times by diehard XP folks that it’s all about the flight model, and you don’t need scenery etc etc etc…. And Austin rubbished streaming sat scenery in the past. 
 

Why the U-turns?  

18 hours ago, blingthinger said:

Combat is a market segment hole that could be filled so nicely...

I think so - and have thought so for a while. People just say "use DCS" but the simple fact is DCS doesnt have an open sdk I can use to simulate all the aspects of an S75 targetting a realistic simulation of an F-14 anywhere in the world.

 

18 hours ago, blingthinger said:

Never seen a red targeting diamond in the sim before. Is that new in the Tomcat?

Dev toys. So far I got lua scripted characters working (chasing the deer out of the forest video), then made a simple hud plugin I can drop into aircraft plugins folder to draw multiplayer targets on the hud and handle targetting the missiles at them, bomb and gun reticle are still to do.

Then I combined the two for that S75 simulation. It was a lot of fun doing the math for the targeting system. Although in the process I also watched the Russian documentary "Dance with Death the S75 in the vietnam war" where I learnt "fun facts" like the Vietcong used them to shoot down 31 B52s over 12 days while the Americans were trying their hardest to murder everyone in Hanoi, costing the US $248million and the war...

9 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

and you don’t need scenery etc etc

you misheard. 

What we said was photogrammetry and simple orthophoto are not the best solution,  and we only want LR to spend time making the best that can be achieved.

Edited November 29, 20223 yr by mSparks

3 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Dev toys.

Ah you slack channel dwellers! Looks very intriguing. 

 

13 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Austin rubbished streaming

Now that's a mild description for some of his...outbursts. The thing is that when he has publicly blown up about it in the past, he has always been describing photogrammetry. 

It was certainly a 180deg comment from him. Especially given that orth4xp is back on the menu. I for one am glad it's at the bottom of the list, though scenery dev is on their hiring list.

36 minutes ago, mSparks said:

you misheard. 

I must have been mishearing for years then. 

21 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I must have been mishearing for years then. 

probably,

no body ever said afaik "we don't need scenery".

Also I am not sure how you could have misheard; the airport gateway, simheaven, ortho4xp and numerous other scenery development streams in such a way,

Such as this over a year ago

although it would appear you did.

Maybe you mistook "we dont need substandard global scenery out of the box we have to replace, we already have that". Which is the general response when people are raving about Asobo scenery over here.

Edited November 30, 20223 yr by mSparks

10 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I’ve been told a hundred times by diehard XP folks that it’s all about the flight model, and you don’t need scenery etc etc etc…. And Austin rubbished streaming sat scenery in the past. 
 

Why the U-turns?  

the core of a flight simulator would indeed be the flight model, I hope you don't want to disagree on that?
But why wouldn't we want to have both, good flight model and good scenery? 

Also, I guess, as they say, your mileage may vary, for some tubeliners scenery is just a added bonus, as long as the airports are remotely accurate they are happy. Others are happy with the plausible world, and then there are those that fill terabytes of hard drives with Ortho.
Including Simheaven is a big hit since years with various hard core fans.

So I would hardly call this a U-turn.

The fact that Austin is now at least considering streaming satellite imagery into X-Plane, or at least provide the tools to do this, than you could call this a U-turn if you like. But as any good business leader, he is going where the demand is, and clearly there is a huge demand for satellite imagery.