ATC Is OK With Me

[G550flyer 1,014]

14 hours ago, Sky_Pilot071 said:

I'm trying to understand why there are so many complaints for the default ATC.  All my ILS flights go without a hitch and the voices sound just fine to me.

I'll admit that I'm not an ATC aficionado but what is all the hubbub about?

Ok, real world pilot here and I fully understand that you just can't totally simulate real world ATC and have it control traffic like real ATC would. There are a host of things that the default system does not do. But, siding with your statement, I agree that it's not all that bad.

1. It does get me from point A to B.

2. It forces me to fly the "full" procedure, which you all should be doing for practice. The only times I've been directed to fly the full procedure without asking real world, is when going into certain places in Africa. They literally clear you to the IAF and clear you for the full approach approaching it. I don't mind this in MSFS because it makes you break out the chart, load the box and fly it accordingly. You will notice that the point they clear you to is not the real transition, so you fix it.

3. It doesn't take in account for weather when assigning approaches. Yea, you need to check the weather and minimums like you would real world. A weather missed approach should not come as a surprise.

4. They may not descend you when you should be descending, but this happens real world also. It forces you to pay attention and track your desired decent point. In the real world, I out it on request once the descent brief is complete and I am within 50 miles of my desired descent point. Once it's requested and they delay, I will even slow to my descent mach to slow things down. This is good flight management and you can ask for a lower altitude in MSFS if they get you inside of 50 miles to descent.

5. They don't do a good job of managing traffic flow, so you have to be mindful of the other aircraft and adjust speed as needed. They had a program over at flightsim.to that would manage traffic flow, but it did cause some issues after the latest update. I'm not sure if it's updated. It managed takeoff, taxi and landing AI aircraft.

It's good enough for government work and forces you to do that um, pilot "stuff".

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by G550flyer

[Kaboki 437]

Just now, G550flyer said:

 

1. It does get me from point A to B.".

 

No it doesnt, it's like a gamble, 50/50 wether it gets me where I want. I fly a lot in mountain areas... 

I know it can never be like real ATC, but im pretty sure they can do better... 

 

[G550flyer 1,014]

11 minutes ago, Kaboki said:

No it doesnt, it's like a gamble, 50/50 wether it gets me where I want. I fly a lot in mountain areas... 

I know it can never be like real ATC, but im pretty sure they can do better... 

It does for me Sir. Don't you know there are places in the world where the ATC is NOT responsible for terrain clearance? Take Honduras for example. When going into this field, MHPR, they will clear you low before you are clear of terrain. It you were foolish to descend, you will hit terrain. Again, you have to stay on your Ps and Qs when operating. I remember going into Moscow and I was cleared 300 below MSA. Just because he clears me down, doesn't mean I blindly do it. Like I mentioned before, you have to do that pilot "stuff". ATC is only partly responsible for terrain clearance in the US. Maybe you didn't get my point, but that's ok.

Edited January 19, 2023 by G550flyer

[Noel 4,503]

2 hours ago, Kaboki said:

Because unless you only fly in flat areas the ATC is pretty much useless.  Try to fly in mountain areas.... 

That's just not true now in my experience I fly in mountains frequently.  It was initially but it's much better than ever I find.  I flew Lima > Cuzco and ATC called every one of a very tight set of frequent decent steps absolutely perfectly and that is a hairy approach!  Never have been vectored into a mountain but certainly was in FSX/P3D.   My chief complaint is the voice quality of the main dude just sounds phony--not robotic in the slightest, just in appropriate for an air traffic controller.  Plus, the frequent go-arounds are a direct side effect of using too much AI traffic and the sim trying to squeeze yourself between them which isn't going to work well with too much RT traffic since you're not being managed like they are--use a limiter like FSLTL's and this problem goes away.

[sd_flyer 6,042]

5 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Yes, the "go around" problem has always been an issue in PC flight simulators. Raul (Simbol) was intending to develop a solution to that problem in P3D, but then Microsoft Flight Simulator appeared, and the rest is history As for the ATC voices, based on what I have heard in YouTube videos, I much prefer the voices in P3D. They sound a lot more natural (as did those in Flight Unlimited 2 and 3 from over twenty years ago).

To mt taste MSFS ATC voices are ok except they a bit slow. Of course other aspect of real life such as voice intonation, phasis or intensity cannot be reproduced by ATC. Also it would be great to add "possible pilot deviation please write down the number " LOL

[Bobsk8 12,734]

9 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

To mt taste MSFS ATC voices are ok except they a bit slow. Of course other aspect of real life such as voice intonation, phasis or intensity cannot be reproduced by ATC. Also it would be great to add "possible pilot deviation please write down the number " LOL

And when you call the number there is a possibility that Asobo FAA will wipe your harddrive as your penalty.. 

[sd_flyer 6,042]

Just now, Bobsk8 said:

And when you call the number there is a possibility that Asobo FAA will wipe your harddrive as your penalty.. 

That would be nice touch LOL

[Kaboki 437]

52 minutes ago, G550flyer said:

It does for me Sir. Don't you know there are places in the world where the ATC is NOT responsible for terrain clearance? 

Yeah maybe, but then why does it keep pestering me with descend to..... If im not complying when i see their request will drive me straight into a mountain? Or keep telling me to go to flight levels in a cessna no matter if I put my desired altitude in my flight plan... The nagging just make me say "Oh shut up" then I cancel the atc service. If thats how it is in real life, then 👌 

 

[G550flyer 1,014]

1 minute ago, Kaboki said:

Yeah maybe, but then why does it keep pestering me with descend to..... If im not complying when i see their request will drive me straight into a mountain? Or keep telling me to go to flight levels in a cessna no matter if I put my desired altitude in my flight plan... The nagging just make me say "Oh shut up" then I cancel the atc service. If thats how it is in real life, then

I mean, we clearly identified issues with the OP and so forth. Again, I have no issue with it and I descend and fly as I do real world without having to cancel. I don't care if it asks me to descend multiple times because it picks up and continues my vectoring regardless if I descend or not. I see you are an all or nothing type of person which gives me insight. Do you and have a good day Sir.

[Kaboki 437]

So ok you dont have any problem, but you didnt care to comment on being sent to fl 30 in a cessna? Guess you dont have that issue either... 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Kaboki

[Noel 4,503]

3 minutes ago, Kaboki said:

Guess you can pretend its all good, I cant

Nobody said it's all good--but it's nonsense to call it "useless" when mountains are involved.

[Kaboki 437]

1 minute ago, Noel said:

Nobody said it's all good--but it's nonsense to call it "useless" when mountains are involved.

Its useless to me... Thats all, no need to be offended everytime there is some slight critisism of MSFS. I love MSFS, but I want things to get better and Im sure it will some day. But if there are things I dont like, I like to discuss it and not just put the dust under a mat and pretend it doesnt exist.... 

[kerosene31 349]

Quite simply you can't rely on MSFS 2020 ATC to even get you anywhere near lined up with a runway.  Far too often, it just vectors you off randomly and makes no sense.  FSX ATC was far from perfect, but most of the time at least it put you pointed towards a runway for a reasonable landing.  FSX was far from perfect, but it was consistent and you could usually rely on it to not virtually kill you.  Maybe you'd get a 50 mile approach in a 172 in FSX, but it got you there. 

Also, as a FA flyer, the ATC loves to ask you to climb to 20,000 feet +.  I'm in a 172 and we're over flat terrain.  This isn't one of those once in awhile kind of quirks, but all the time. 

I never expect the default to use proper procedures or anything.  If you fired up a quick flight in FSX you could rely on it to point you towards a runway.  In 2020 I regularly have to switch to VFR or ignore it, as it is flat out doing things that make zero sense. 

[Kaboki 437]

Yeah, I once got vectored all the way back to where I came from, 😂 

[Bobsk8 12,734]

23 minutes ago, Noel said:

Nobody said it's all good--but it's nonsense to call it "useless" when mountains are involved.

Unfortunately hills and mountains seem to be all over the world, which to me, makes it totally useless.