1 hour ago, Jazz said:

I'm saying that the idea that these emit zero emissions is laughable nonsense believed only by people that have "faith" rather than facts and it's about time people started pushing back against it rather than accepting the dogma being dished out on the subject.

 

 

Well I think its clear to most, that in the link in my first post, they are talking about just the fact that there are zero emissions from the vehicle in use. 

 

Quote

Oh yes, they are not chuffing it out as it trundles past Sainsbury's unless you count the occupants but the cost of making, shipping and then charging them is preposterous. You may only have renewable energy on the tiny Island of Guernsey (which I'm very sceptical of due to the nature of how it works) but here on the mainland we don't and are never likely to have due to the realities of demand and production yet in my neck of the woods we have had these ugly Chinese battery boxes buzzing about for years.

 

Yes, indeed, Guernseys electricity is 94% renewable. There an offshore wind farm in the consultation phase too, that would provide electricity to the whole of the channel islands. In which case we wouldn't require the undersea cable that stretches' to France. 

EV's, cars or busses, obviously aren't 100% emission free, but the point you might be missing, or not appreciating the significance of, is that the emissions cost of manufacture, shipping, is payed back within the lifetime of the vehicle. Dependent on the nature of that particular energy grid. Even if an electricity grid is composed of 100% coal fired power stations, the emissions from manufacture are paid back relatively quickly. 5 years to reach parity if its a coal fired grid, for a car. If renewables are in the mix, much faster, as quick as a few months. 

 

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2020 marked the first year in the UK’s history that electricity came predominantly from renewable energy, with 43% of our power coming from a mix of wind, solar, bioenergy and hydroelectric sources.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/how-much-uks-energy-renewable

36.3% in quarter 3 2022. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1126161/Energy_Trends_December_2022.pdf

 

• Quote

   

  • It takes a typical EV about one year in operation to achieve "carbon parity" with an ICE vehicle.
  • If the EV draws electricity from a coal/fired grid, however, the catchup period stretches to more than five years.
  • If the grid is powered by carbon/free hydroelectricity, the catchup period is about six months.

   

 

https://www.cotes.com/blog/greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-ev-vs-ice-vehicles

A bus has a larger battery of course, so greater emissions during manufacture than a car, but here in Guernsey they should reach parity well within the lifetime of the vehicle. For the UK, if the degree to witch renewable energy contributes to the grid remains the same or increases, (it will obviously increase) then UK electric busses should reach parity well within their lifetime too, I would have thought.

 

1 hour ago, Jazz said:

yet in my neck of the woods we have had these ugly Chinese battery boxes buzzing about for years.

 

Old technology then. Some years back they trialed the old tech electric buses in Guernsey and they were garbage, couldn't climb the hills. 😄   The new technology busses are orders of magnitude better. 

 

1 hour ago, Jazz said:

My apologies for getting a bit ranty but I feel strongly on this subject. I'm bloody freezing 😆

 

That's okay, we are all entitled to a rant now and again. 🙂 Chilly here too, but not as cold as the UK. Currently 7 degrees. 7 degrees doesn't bother me to be honest, doesn't feel that cold at all. Where are you based in the UK? I used to be in the Midlands, 4 degrees there at the moment I believe. 

 

We have of course strayed into territory that will cause the moderators to emit steam from their noses and ears, so we better not discuss CO2 emissions further. 🤔

Edited January 24, 20233 yr by martin-w

17 minutes ago, martin-w said:

We have of course strayed into territory that will cause the moderators to emit steam from their noises and ears, so we better not discuss CO2 emissions further.

Yes, I realised my mistake shortly after I hit "post" and whilst stirring my cup of tea🤣

46 minutes ago, Jazz said:

Yes, I realised my mistake shortly after I hit "post" and whilst stirring my cup of tea🤣

 

😄 Naughty boy.

I've just added Martini to my coffee... is that naughty too? 

4 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

😄 Naughty boy.

I've just added Martini to my coffee... is that naughty too? 

At 2 in the afternoon it probably is but who is gonna tell you off?

I say go for it 😉

Martini in coffee though? I have never heard of such a concoction 😆

Edited January 24, 20233 yr by Jazz

21 hours ago, martin-w said:

I'm sure the states have considered battery replacement. They wouldn't be planning this if it was more expensive of course. It will be factored into the equation.

I actually admire your unquestioning faith in our benevolent govt. bureaucrats and leaders.  I hope you're right that these folks truly care about us little people.

Dave

51 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

I actually admire your unquestioning faith in our benevolent govt. bureaucrats and leaders.  I hope you're right that these folks truly care about us little people.

Dave

 

I don't have unquestioning faith in anyone to be honest Dave. Its basic common sense for them to factor such things into the equation. We have opposition political parties here and 60,000 people that will scream blue murder if the bus chosen turns out to be more expensive than the old diesel guzzling busses. I don't think they dare risk it. 

The current busses are 20 years old and have had expensive corrosion issues. So they have to be replaced. I recall that there are some newer busses in the fleet but the old ones are averaging high breakdowns per month. 

Not sure how many will be introduced. I think initially it will be just some.

https://channeleye.media/electric-bus-to-be-trialled-in-guernsey/

 

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The bus will be on trial from 19th to 22nd January 2023.

The bus will arrive on the morning of Thursday 19 January and will be trialled along all the routes (out of service). This will provide valuable data on energy consumption and manoeuvrability on the island.

 

They say the trial went well, but they look a bit big to me. I'd prefer smaller busses  than these big guys. 😐

 

 

Edited January 24, 20233 yr by martin-w

1 hour ago, Jazz said:

At 2 in the afternoon it probably is but who is gonna tell you off?

I say go for it 😉

Martini in coffee though? I have never heard of such a concoction 😆

 

It was actually quite yuk! Back to whisky me thinks. 

Edited January 24, 20233 yr by martin-w

I know the old Guernsey buses well, quaint little things.

When I did my PPL down at the Guernsey aero club I used to use them all the time to get into St Peters port.

As I was 18 at the time I was let lose in an aero club Cessna 152 on my own to fly across the Channel and around France no problem, but I was considered too young to hire a Ford Fiesta so had to use the bus.

1 hour ago, jon b said:

I know the old Guernsey buses well, quaint little things.

When I did my PPL down at the Guernsey aero club I used to use them all the time to get into St Peters port.

As I was 18 at the time I was let lose in an aero club Cessna 152 on my own to fly across the Channel and around France no problem, but I was considered too young to hire a Ford Fiesta so had to use the bus.

 

How long ago was that? The ones we have now aren't quaint little things, they're quite sizable. 

"Too young for a Fiesta" but you can terrorize the skies. 😀

 

They look like this now...

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 20233 yr by martin-w

8 minutes ago, martin-w said:

How long ago was that?

1990 so they’re probably all in museums now, and sadly looking on the uk register my little 152 is also no longer with us.

On 1/23/2023 at 8:39 AM, dave2013 said:

It's just another incremental step towards the ultimate agenda of total control of the masses and resource rationing, and because it's so gradual many people don't see it.

I've got to hand it to you Dave, you see the conspiracies where we ordinary folks don't, even when it makes good sense.  Best stick with what we already have than try to improve things right Dave?  The danger is that good ideas might get adopted and improve our lives and then where would the naysayers be eh?

Noel  

10 hours ago, martin-w said:

It was actually quite yuk! Back to whisky me thinks. 

You should try Bailey's Irish Cream in your coffee! 😉

10 hours ago, n4gix said:

You should try Bailey's Irish Cream in your coffee! 😉

 

A fine suggestion. 

16 hours ago, birdguy said:

I've got to hand it to you Dave, you see the conspiracies where we ordinary folks don't, even when it makes good sense.  Best stick with what we already have than try to improve things right Dave?  The danger is that good ideas might get adopted and improve our lives and then where would the naysayers be eh?

Noel  

The problem is that "ordinary folks" aren't paying attention.

All you have to do is listen to what many govt., big tech, big pharma, and big corporate "leaders" are saying.  It's out in the open now, no more secret meetings like they used to have.

They are clearly saying that there are too many people consuming too many resources, and that something must be done about it because we, the little people, will ruin the planet.  Oh, and if anyone dares to disagree, they should be considered extremists and their speech should be censored.

You're old enough that the policies that these folks are proposing probably won't affect you too much, but your children and grandchildren will certainly suffer the consequences.

You have time, so I suggest you read up on the World Economic Forum, United Nations Agenda 21, Agenda 2030, and COP26/27/28.

Just a quick example of the kind of stuff these "elites" say at these meetings: a U.S. Senator at the WEF meeting in Davos recently stated "the problem that we have is the open press system and basically all the platforms".  He's essentially complaining, to a foreign audience, about our freedom of speech, and how it gives "extremists" a platform and makes it hard for all the people to come together.  He had a friendly audience there, full of people who desire to censor, surveil, and control people.

Dave

 

Interesting topic - too bad it had to get political - time to go.