another reason why some early 7800X3D benchmarks might be flawed (not the testers fault, but AMD's)

 

3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

You practice what you preach I assume.

Ray

I apologize, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I probably got carried away by all those latest wunderbar new performance boost options we got, and I simply can't get enough of it.

won't happen again!

Turbo-mini

47 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Maybe the Intel and 7950XD3 can be overclocked higher than the 7800XD3.

The huge amount of cache on the X3D chips makes them much harder to overclock. There is a significant clock delta between 7800X3D and the 7950X3D, but that is reserved to the CCD without the V-Cache. 

Don’t think it is worth it to put these expensive chips at risk, but I will keep my eyes open for videos from der8auer and similar OC YouTubers. 

Edited April 7, 20233 yr by GCBraun

26 minutes ago, turbomax said:

Ray

I apologize, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I probably got carried away by all those latest wunderbar new performance boost options we got, and I simply can't get enough of it.

won't happen again!

Turbo-mini

Apology accepted. You didn’t hurt my feelings. I’m too old for that.

12 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Don’t think it is worth it to put these expensive chips at risk

I for one have totally retired from overclocking considering 60 - 100 fps and FrameGeneration. for what: 5% ? - not worth the trouble. just like I dont want to spend any time with water cooling, which isn't required with 7800X3D anyway.

18 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

The huge amount of cache on the X3D chips makes them much harder to overclock.

Interesting. According to AMD’s official site it’s capable of running at 5Ghz on a single core. My four year old i7-8086K is running at 4.9Ghz on the first three cores.

How much of an improvement in P3D am I going to see?

13 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Interesting. According to AMD’s official site it’s capable of running at 5Ghz on a single core. My four year old i7-8086K is running at 4.9Ghz on the first three cores.

How much of an improvement in P3D am I going to see?

You can’t compare just clock speed. These new processors can accomplish much more, even though they are running at similar speeds. 

As for P3D, frankly, I am not sure. What I know is that, differently from the other sims,  I am heavily CPU limited even when cruising.
Perhaps you can find some earlier comparisons when the 5800X3D was released?

Edited April 7, 20233 yr by GCBraun

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

How much of an improvement in P3D am I going to see?

without any benchmarks, I would assume similar improvement to what we are seeing in MSFS. I found that Formular 1 22 racing showed similar improvement over the i9-13900K and therefore seems somewhat a comparable type of app like MSFS, Linus techtips has a long list of games benchmarks incl. F1 22, but not MSFS (let alone P3D)

I would expect at least double/triple performance over an 8086K.hardly any CPU upgrade could benefit more than your 8086K 😀

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-8086K+%40+4.00GHz&id=3279

 

 

Edited April 7, 20233 yr by turbomax

2 hours ago, GCBraun said:

You can’t compare just clock speed. These new processors can accomplish much more, even though they are running at similar speeds. 

As for P3D, frankly, I am not sure. What I know is that, differently from the other sims,  I am heavily CPU limited even when cruising.
Perhaps you can find some earlier comparisons when the 5800X3D was released?

Agreed. If it was just raw speed and nothing else progress would be slow. The fact my current CPU is 4 years old suggests improvements should be significant especially when you swap a 1080Ti for a 4090.

I’ve been frugal with the housekeeping. 😉

59 minutes ago, turbomax said:

I would expect at least double/triple performance over an 8086K.hardly any CPU upgrade could benefit more than your 8086K 😀

 

Sounds good! I might be able to try some dawn / dusk flights without crippling my GPU. It was great in its day but time marches on. I’ll watch the video tomorrow, thanks. Only upgrading every 3-4 years ensures a decent performance boost.

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thank you for confirming the same conclusion I came to watching that video. I use my flight sim PC for flying exclusively. And doing backups of course.

I'd suggest determining this very important thing for your particular use case:  does P3D respond well to the x3D, or does it respond well to the clockspeed.  If it is clockspeed, you're better off with 7700X or 7950X or 13700K or 13600K.   Of these only the 7950X is truly expensive, in my opinion.  HOWEVER, if you do decide to go x3D....I agree with the others, with your proposed use I don't see any reason to buy the 7950X3D or 7900X3D.   I'd go 7800X3D first choice, second 13700K, third 13600K, fourth 7700K, fifth 7950X. 

If P3D is indifferent to x3D, then you might as well go 13700KF or 7700X as they are clockspeed cpu's.  Ask someone who runs P3D with a 5800X3D if P3D likes the x3D.

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It’s always a good idea to check more than one review and one important aspect she didn’t cover is overclocking. Maybe the Intel and 7950XD3 can be overclocked higher than the 7800XD3.

She didn't cover overclocking because it's not very important.  I've been researching this.  The AMD's x3D CCD's clock at about the same speed -- and my understanding is that you UNDERVOLT them to get higher consistent clock speeds.  Intel can definitely be clocked higher, but it still would perform worse than the latest AMD line in our particular applications.

Any of the 7x3D CCD's will run, as I've said, between 4.7-5.2 ghz.  5.0 or 5.2 on the top end with PBO and some cooling.  And remember, the "5.7 ghz" of the 7950X3D is presumably *not* what you'd run a sim on.  Instead the sim would likely run on the vcache CCD at 4.7-5.2 ghz.  

If you upgrade, you should experiment with what our monitor can do:  a 50hz refresh/ 50 fps framelock in P3D.  I'm not sure if it will be possible, especially in the nasty London test scenario, but it would be interesting to try.

And if you get an Intel, or a non-X3D AMD, then by all means overclock away.  If you go x3D, undervolt / PBO.

4 hours ago, GCBraun said:

You can’t compare just clock speed. These new processors can accomplish much more, even though they are running at similar speeds. 

As for P3D, frankly, I am not sure. What I know is that, differently from the other sims,  I am heavily CPU limited even when cruising.
Perhaps you can find some earlier comparisons when the 5800X3D was released?

@Ray Proudfoot   GCBraun is right.  You need to find out if P3D responds well to the 3Dvcache cpu's.    Otherwise you might as well go for a clockspeed-oriented cpu.   A 7700X for example, is basically a higher-clocking version of the 7800X3D without the 3D vcache.

8 hours ago, Mace said:

I'd suggest determining this very important thing for your particular use case:  does P3D respond well to the x3D, or does it respond well to the clockspeed. 

Thanks for that informative reply. LM don’t go into the specific of what’s best. v5.3HF2 did introduce a different method of assigning specific tasks to different cores. Whether that remains the same or is enhanced in v6 remains to be seen.

I have a friend who has a 7950XD3 and once setup for P3D should be able to advise if it’s the best for that sim. The 7800XD3 does look promising. I’ll continue my research.

I’ll be buying from Chillblast, a U.K. company who produce excellent machines.

Regarding OCing the 7800X3D, here is an interesting article showcasing the attempts from a very experienced overclocker:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/7800x3d-overclocked-to-5-4-ghz

In summary, he was only able to overclock the chip to 5.4Ghz and that after bypassing AMD's 5 GHz ceiling by using external clock generators to overclock the CPU cores.

"To achieve 5.4GHz, SkatterBencher used a unique combination of multiple features, including the external clock generator, Precision Boost Overdrive, and AMD's Curve Optimizer to boost clock speeds."

This seems like a huge amount of work. For us who value stability, going through all that hassle just to gain 400Mhz does not seem to be worth it.

Went with a a 7950x3d with a 4090 as its companion. One of the parts in my order won't come until a couple of weeks, so I get some time to think this through. If the 4090 fits in my 'o11 Dynamic' being one of the things.   

2 hours ago, Swe_Richard said:

Went with a a 7950x3d with a 4090 as its companion. One of the parts in my order won't come until a couple of weeks, so I get some time to think this through. If the 4090 fits in my 'o11 Dynamic' being one of the things.   

Is it the Evo model, or plain O11D? If it's not the Evo you'll need a veritcal mount