So, I have just replaced my previous CPU (7600X) with the 7800X3D. Before switching the chips, I have made some screenshots showcasing similar scenarios on all simulators I have installed.

The scenario is simple: Flight-Deck and Spot pictures of high-end Airbuses (Fenix, Toliss and FSLabs) at EGLL on RW09R with live AI traffic (PSXT + RT with about 70 aircraft), at 12:00 with clouded skies. 

All sims are configured with high/very-high settings and the only thing that changed significantly between the tests was the CPU.

Here are the results, initially with the 7600X and then with the 7800X3D:

 

7600X + RTX 4090:

MSFS (latest official version)

 

XP12 (latest beta)

 

P3D v5.3 ( bit hard to see on the spot picture, but the reading shows 37 fps)

 

 

7800X3D + RTX 4090:

MSFS (latest official version)

 

 

XP12 (latest beta)

 

P3D v5.3

So, I am still analyzing all the data myself, but it seems there is a clear 10-20% increase on MSFS and XP12, but a similar decrease on P3D, where I lost about 10% fps on both scenarios (24 to 21 fps on the cockpit and 37 to 33fps on spot). Sorry that the P3D images are not that good...not sure why they are so washed out.

On the right side, it is possible to see the CPU utilization details on the flight-deck picture and the GPU data on the spot screenshot.

I am pinging @Ray Proudfoot here, because I know he is about to buy a new Rig just for P3D. Now, considering that Prepar3D is not my main sim, I may be doing something wrong here, but the first impression is that this sim is more sensitive to clock speed and does not use the V-Cache in the same way as XP12/MSFS. Finally, I double checked and my FPS are set to unlimited within P3D and Nvidia Panel and V-Sync is set to off...

Anyway, happy to answer any questions or act based on any suggestions you may have. Hopefully this is helpful for someone.

Edited April 13, 20233 yr by GCBraun

32 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

I am pinging @Ray Proudfoot here, because I know he is about to buy a new Rig just for P3D. Now, considering that Prepar3D is not my main sim, I may be doing something wrong here, but the first impression is that this sim is more sensitive to clock speed and does not use the V-Cache in the same way as XP12/MSFS. Finally, I might be doing something wrong here, but I double checked and my FPS are set to unlimited within P3D and Nvidia Panel and V-Sync is set to off...

Thanks for posting your findings. Getting worse performance with a faster CPU in P3D is unusual. Is it Simwings Heathrow? What I find curious is the CPU only running at 3%. Surely it should be flat out trying to achieve the highest possible performance?

I’m getting around that fps with my current rig albeit with lower scenery settings and with 65 AIG Ai. I would have expected far better performance with a much faster CPU. What clock speed is it running at?

3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thanks for posting your findings. Getting worse performance with a faster CPU in P3D is unusual. Is it Simwings Heathrow? What I find curious is the CPU only running at 3%. Surely it should be flat out trying to achieve the highest possible performance?

I’m getting around that fps with my current rig albeit with lower scenery settings and with 65 AIG Ai. I would have expected far better performance with a much faster CPU. What clock speed is it running at?

Yes, Simwings EGLL.

The CPU readings on the left seem incorrect. That is why I have shared HWINFO’s summary on the right. There we can see about 17% CPU usage @ 4.5Ghz. My sliders on P3D are all set to the right and, even then, I am still highly CPU limited with about 60% GPU usage.

Frankly, I am also a bit puzzled with the results, as it seems that my system is not being fully utilized, especially on P3D. 

Will play with the settings some more during the weekend. 

@GCBraun, I’ll do my own tests at 09L with my current settings and no wx (for uniformity) and another with all scenery sliders fully right.

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thanks for posting your findings. Getting worse performance with a faster CPU in P3D is unusual. Is it Simwings Heathrow? What I find curious is the CPU only running at 3%. Surely it should be flat out trying to achieve the highest possible performance?

I’m getting around that fps with my current rig albeit with lower scenery settings and with 65 AIG Ai. I would have expected far better performance with a much faster CPU. What clock speed is it running at?

It's not a "faster cpu" for all apps though.

This is what I was suggesting to you in that other thread, to definitely do research on this.

x3D is not a "faster cpu" for applications that like clock speed.  As I suspected, P3D may be one of those -- assuming GCBraun's testing is accurate, and I have every reason to believe it is.   If good testing then you'd want the fastest clock speed you could get, probably 7950X or 13700KF.

1 hour ago, Mace said:

It's not a "faster cpu" for all apps though.

This is what I was suggesting to you in that other thread, to definitely do research on this.

x3D is not a "faster cpu" for applications that like clock speed.  As I suspected, P3D may be one of those -- assuming GCBraun's testing is accurate, and I have every reason to believe it is.   If good testing then you'd want the fastest clock speed you could get, probably 7950X or 13700KF.

This is true.  The only thing that makes it "faster" is the 3d vcache.  If an application does not make use of this the cpu may be slower since the 3d cores run at slower clock speeds than non 3d vcache cores.  It would not surprise me if the p3d was unable to make use of the 3d cache since the esp engine has always been limited by raw click speed even back in the fsx days

14 hours ago, GCBraun said:

Anyway, happy to answer any questions or act based on any suggestions you may have. Hopefully this is helpful for someone.

I cannot see any of the figures on the right. If I enlarge them, it goes to the Imgur store page..

This is a quick reply as I have to go out shortly. I googled “fastest CPU” and the search returned this article from a trusted site.

6Ghz out of the box for the i9-13900KS represents a 22% increase in clock speed over my existing i7-8086K. It’s possible that could be increased with overclocking.

Then there’s the difference in L1, 2 and 3 cache with the newer CPU having substantially more. That will improve performance surely?

Plus changing a 11Gb 1080Ti for a 24Gb 4090 will surely improve fps. It can’t all be down to the CPU. I have Bilbao airport and with the Xtreme Prototypes Lear 25 in 4K the sim stutters because the GPU is close to 100%.

Here’s a comparison of my existing CPU and the 13900KS.

https://technical.city/en/cpu/Core-i7-8086K-vs-Core-i9-13900KS

One final comment which I don’t understand. Why is the CPU draw on all tests so low? The GPU is being worked hard but the CPU appears to be idling.

@GCBraun, what clock speed are you running for those tests?

 

7600x and 7800x3d seem to have nearly identical(less than %10) performances at msfs, very strange results. Because i saw at another video showing nearly %30 performance increase from 7950x to 7950x3d. You have latest bios and chipset drivers?

Edited April 14, 20233 yr by spitzer45

 

There is clearly something wrong with the graphics in the P3D test using the 7800X3D. Particularly in the first of the 2 images which appears to show 21fps.  The second image showing 33 fps is only slightly better. Perhaps shaders were not cleared, but whatever the cause, it must be creating an unrealistic load to give those results and could not be considered a valid comparison.  It's doubtful this is down to the different CPU.

Edited April 14, 20233 yr by Biggles2010

11 hours ago, Pilot53 said:

This is true.  The only thing that makes it "faster" is the 3d vcache.  If an application does not make use of this the cpu may be slower since the 3d cores run at slower clock speeds than non 3d vcache cores.  It would not surprise me if the p3d was unable to make use of the 3d cache since the esp engine has always been limited by raw click speed even back in the fsx days

What about the amount of L1, 2 and 3 cache? What about DDR5 memory compared to DDR4? Surely those have an impact on fps otherwise what’s the point of them?

Don’t forget the significant change made in P3D v5.3 when the workload was spread over three separate cores. That may be further enhanced with v6 but we’ll only know on release. Probably under 2 months.

In short, a modern CPU compared to a 4 year-old one has to be faster otherwise why produce them?

Look at single and multi-threaded performance of the two CPUs in this test. Intel clear winner in single and just ahead in multi.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d-vs-intel-core-i9-13900k-vs-intel-core-7-13700K

12 hours ago, Mace said:

It's not a "faster cpu" for all apps though.

This is what I was suggesting to you in that other thread, to definitely do research on this.

x3D is not a "faster cpu" for applications that like clock speed.  As I suspected, P3D may be one of those -- assuming GCBraun's testing is accurate, and I have every reason to believe it is.   If good testing then you'd want the fastest clock speed you could get, probably 7950X or 13700KF.

After further research this morning I’m tending to agree with you. The Intel i7-13900K wins on sheer clock speed. Not sure of the variations of the KS and KF.

Here are my numbers.

1) PMDG737 on 09L at EGLL at 12:00 local. Weather Fair (AS not used). 1 Ai aircraft initially. 3840*2160. My current settings gives 46-48fps.

2) Moving all Scenery Objects sliders to right except Road Traffic half-way gives 27fps.

As 2 but with 60 Ai gives 22fps.

In all cases CPU1 load was 100%.

CPU overclocked to 4.9Ghz.

Edited April 14, 20233 yr by Ray Proudfoot
resolution corrected

7 hours ago, IanHarrison said:

I cannot see any of the figures on the right. If I enlarge them, it goes to the Imgur store page..

Which ones? All of them?

5 hours ago, spitzer45 said:

7600x and 7800x3d seem to have nearly identical(less than %10) performances at msfs, very strange results. Because i saw at another video showing nearly %30 performance increase from 7950x to 7950x3d. You have latest bios and chipset drivers?

On the flight-deck the difference is 10%, but on the spot image, about 20%. I have the latest BIOS (1410) and Chipset drivers (5.0.3.24.2328), just confirmed. 

6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

This is a quick reply as I have to go out shortly. I googled “fastest CPU” and the search returned this article from a trusted site.

6Ghz out of the box for the i9-13900KS represents a 22% increase in clock speed over my existing i7-8086K. It’s possible that could be increased with overclocking.

Then there’s the difference in L1, 2 and 3 cache with the newer CPU having substantially more. That will improve performance surely?

Plus changing a 11Gb 1080Ti for a 24Gb 4090 will surely improve fps. It can’t all be down to the CPU. I have Bilbao airport and with the Xtreme Prototypes Lear 25 in 4K the sim stutters because the GPU is close to 100%.

Here’s a comparison of my existing CPU and the 13900KS.

https://technical.city/en/cpu/Core-i7-8086K-vs-Core-i9-13900KS

One final comment which I don’t understand. Why is the CPU draw on all tests so low? The GPU is being worked hard but the CPU appears to be idling.

@GCBraun, what clock speed are you running for those tests?

 

After updating to the latest HWINFO Beta, I am doing a test flight on P3D from KMCO to PANC and I am now seeing 100% C0/T0 usage, both on the airport and on cruise. 

Nevertheless, performance is still underwhelming @ about 4.4Ghz, with some spikes to 4.7Ghz. Around 20fps on the airport with AI and now 30-35fps on cruise. Similar, but definitely a bit lower, when compared to my 7600X (with base speed of 4.7Ghz and boost up to 5.3Ghz).

I will still conduct additional tests but, as of now, it seems that P3D prioritizes clock speed in detriment to cache. If that is the case, a 13900KS would be a better option for that sim...

Edited April 14, 20233 yr by GCBraun

11 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Nevertheless, performance is still underwhelming @ about 4.4Ghz, with some spikes to 4.7Ghz. Around 20fps on the airport with AI and now 30-35fps on cruise. Similar, but definitely a bit lower, when compared to my 7600X (with base speed of 4.7Ghz and boost up to 5.3Ghz).

I will still conduct additional tests but, as of now, it seems that P3D prioritizes clock speed in detriment to cache. If that is the case, a 13900KS would be a better option for that sim...

How far can your CPU be overclocked? Anywhere near the 6.0 of the i7-13900KS?

I concur the Intel looks best for me. Thanks for posting your findings.