MS/Asobo and opening Weather / Camera SDK to 3rd Parties

[David Mills 4,774]

Asobo's decisions are based upon how an API would affect both PC and Xbox versions of MSFS. Could a weather API produce a usable product in the Xbox version as well? I genuinely don't know. Someone please address this issue, as it's vitally important to Asobo's decisions regarding APIs.

Edited May 16, 2023 by David Mills

[jarmstro 2,404]

19 minutes ago, Damian Clark said:

Hmmm, here are just a few features that HiFi developers and myself worked very hard on for many, many years:  High-performance, high-availability private weather cloud network, dynamic historical playback, forecast data synthesis, TAF awareness, global forecast model and surface observation data integration, weather planning, mapping, advanced radar/reflectivity simulation, realistic wind shear and PWS simulation, weather gauge, radar gauge, in-cloud effects, visibility reduction, realistic air data analysis, SIGMET/AIRMET awareness and simulation, microbursts, terrain-based drafts, comprehensive options and weather control, manual weather control, comprehensive API, mobile companion app, wake turbulence, advanced gust simulation, turbulence effects, vertical drafts, detailed interpolation feedback/data. 

Well to be honest I never noticed any of that when using Active Sky. I just paid my money for the weather transitioning and cirrus. And there were so many options and sliders? But no REALISTIC one-click button.

Edited May 16, 2023 by jarmstro

[abrams_tank 7,426]

11 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Asobo's decisions are based upon how an API would affect both PC and Xbox versions of MSFS. Could a weather API produce a usable product in the Xbox version as well? I genuinely don't know. Someone please address this issue, as it's vitally important to Asobo's decisions regarding APIs.

I don't think external add-ons like Hi-Fi or Rex will work on XBox. For the same reason, I don't think the standard version of GSX works on XBox as well. If my understanding is correct, Hi-Fi, Rex, and GSX all use an external executable. The XBox is sandboxed and I also think there are restrictions in the MSFS marketplace, that don't allow external executables to be run.

Any version of Hi-Fi, Rex, or GSX that works on XBox, probably can't be an executable and this may also mean it could be watered down in terms of functionality.

[lwt1971 7,420]

59 minutes ago, Damian Clark said:

That's why add-ons are cool, right?  Wouldn't it be great if 3rd parties like us could try and offer such features for those who care about them?  And wouldn't it be great if we could do even more, now that we have such improved visuals and underlying weather system?  We've been dreaming about a product like FS2020 for a long time.  I think it would be great if we could participate one day.

All fair points... You probably might have more insights here, but given MSFS's client/server nature and the weather sourcing + processing + synthesis happening on the "server" end in the cloud which is then served out to the MSFS client machines (i.e. us), do you see any any technical or architectural blockers for being able to do weather customization by a 3rd party add-on sitting on the client end machine? I first felt that these kinds of technical issues might be why MS/Asobo didn't open up 3rd party write/mod access, but they do seem to be conveying now that this was more of a priorities discussion and decision which they are reconsidering, which then suggests there are no real technical/architectural blockers.

Btw, I respectfully disagree with you here that there's been some concerted effort on the MSFS users' part to prevent 3rd party write/mod access to weather and that MS/Asobo viewed that as an "outcry" to base their decisions on. It's just a simple matter of 3rd party weather not being *as* important as other areas of the sim to most MSFS users (EDIT: given how various other aspects of the sim needed more urgent attention and given how default weather was so good out of the gate)... Also, as they've stated clearly multiple times, they look at user requests and popularity of such requests as one of many factors to guide their backlog prioritization, our voices alone don't have that much sway.
 

Edited May 16, 2023 by lwt1971

[WestAir 2,522]

If they open up the WX API completely, then in years time while the Asobo WX is still chugging along, 3PD's will have realistic fronts, lenticular clouds, tornado's, wake turbulence, hail, microbursts, and a realistic WXR.

They open up the camera API and FSR will allow us to pan closer and further from the aircraft in external view, which is something I desperately want.

Letting passionate dev teams work on things is never hurtful to the community. No one has to buy their products, and Asobo can still work on its own core features at its own pace.

[B777ER 2,486]

One thing we need for sure is proper cirrus clouds. And since October, have not seen a single bit of lightning anywhere in the world be it cloud to ground or cloud to cloud. Very odd Asobo has not fixed either of these yet.

[regis9 4,020]

I’m perfectly happy with default weather (far more than I ever was with FSX or P3D default weather).  But if this can allow HiFiSim to develop a weather addon that can make me even more perfectly happy I’m onboard 😀

[Mace 1,929]

7 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

 It's just a simple matter of 3rd party weather not being *as* important as other areas of the sim to most MSFS users... 
 

If they knew how good it *could* be, it would be super-super important to all.

[lwt1971 7,420]

Just now, Mace said:

If they knew how good it *could* be, it would be super-super important to all.

Well, what I mostly meant here is that in the beginning years of MSFS, there were areas of the sim that needed more urgent attention than the default weather especially given how good default weather was out of the gate, and development time being allocated to open up 3rd party weather modding was better spent elsewhere (so it was not super important then). Given where MSFS is right now, it's definitely a better time to consider allocating MS/Asobo dev resources to opening up weather access (which they seem to be doing).
 

[virtualstuff 759]

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

There is no compunction to buy a 3rd party addon. It’s not being forced on you. If you’re happy with the inbuilt weather engine then things will remain unchanged.

Hi-Fi do have unparalleled experience in simulator weather. I’d be amazed if they couldn’t better what is already there.

Well Ray I'm entitled to have my own opinion to have a different view too maybe not yours, but that's fine by me.

As for As have had all those versions from the first till the last so be very supportive towards HiFi and have nothing against them.

But nowadays I have a different view 😉and for WX depiction regarding HiFi it has always been a frustrating part too...

Is there room for improvement certainly, but I prefer not again to have a sim connect tool sim connect has already timing issues too. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by virtualstuff

[Ray Proudfoot 8,980]

3 minutes ago, virtualstuff said:

Well Ray I'm entitled to have my own opinion to have a different view too maybe not yours, but that's fine by me.

I never said you weren’t.

[virtualstuff 759]

2 hours ago, Damian Clark said:

...  Popular opinion these days, and probably why we don't have API access yet.  The campaign against weather add-ons (or I guess just HiFi?) is significant.  Glad to see that other opinions are being considered though, more API access will benefit everyone.

Damian what a nonsense I'm floating a very long time around too and purchased every version of AS in the past and have nothing against HiFi amazing after all those years this statement...

Just because I have now a different opinion and preference which is all in the same framework where possible for several obvious reasons... So I prefer that route nothing to do with HiFi.

[Fiorentoni 4,253]

Cameras are fine for me, not missing those addons anymore. Weather is also fine if live, but historical weather would be something I'd like to have.

[RALF9636 1,973]

8 hours ago, Tom_L said:

... Live Weather often lacks a plausible and convincing depiction, as cloud rendering is cumulus centric and neglects atmospheric conditions.
... multilayered stratiform cloudscapes ... Cirrus clouds ... aerosol density .... CB's ... Thunderstorms ... typical physical phenomena inside of clouds ... weather radar ... snow coverage... frozen fjords ...

... fllying an airliner with all bells and whistles avionicwise, but no reasonable WXradar, through whispy smoke puffs mimicking a CB without any impact and then land at LOWI on a snow covered runway in spring is arcade.

This. And you didn't even mention the lack of historical weather.

I don't understand how anyone could vote against opening the weather to third parties, claiming the default weather was so good - with all these blatant shortcomings.

Actually what seemed promising with the release of MSFS started to go south when they gave in to the VATSIM crowd and destroyed their own weather engine by implementing METAR data. Obviously they are still trying to repair what they ruined themselves for no good reason. Things didn't get better when they introduced a half-baked thermals simulation, ending up with a mix of live and quasi historical weather where we can now experience the thermal activity of noon with the weather of midnight.

 

Hopefully they finally realized that they - by their own high standards - screwed up the weather with all their sporadic patchwork over the course of updates and that the involvement of third parties could only be of benefit for MSFS - just like it is with aircraft, scenery and all the aspects we already have great third party products for.

Imagine where we could be now regarding weather if HIFI (and all the other great inventive developers out there) would have been working on the weather in MSFS for 2.5 years now - as the likes of FlyByWire or Fenix have been with aircraft.

[virtualstuff 759]

10 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Imagine where we could be now regarding weather if HIFI (and all the other great inventive developers out there) would have been working on the weather in MSFS for 2.5 years now - as the likes of FlyByWire or Fenix have been with aircraft.

Well I remember cloud shifts / redraws / huge wind shifts / 2d clouds / fog layers to coverup the cloud redraws and performance issues... Issue with local and global stations so it wasn't perfect either in the past.

I think sim connect with MSFS isn't robust either to have all those different programs battling for sim connect time 😞  

So I prefer a similar approach like AAU1/2 but then for WX 😇

Edited May 16, 2023 by virtualstuff