Thinking of upgrading to Vista? Read this...

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

I buy a car.The manufacturer issues two keys for the vehicle.Those keys are the only way I can start the car.If I loose both, I am out of luck until I replace one or both of those keys.$15 - $20 dollars to do so? Think again; the new "secure" keys with embedded chips cost anywhere from $250 - $350 each.I don't know about where you live, but here in Virgina, the State requires that I pay to have my car inspected once a year. If it fails inspection, I have to pay to get it fixed and to pass the re-inspection (that I have to pay for again, by the way). If I don't get it inspected at all as required by law, I am ticketed and fined.If I CHOOSE to drive and own a vehicle, I must abide by the law and the requirements of the manufacturers to possess a set of keys to operate the vehicle.Its all about personal choice folks.

[W2DR 1,860]

But, how would you view it if you had to buy a new "black box" for your car?. For the second time? Mine just was replaced for the second time in two years. Honda didn't make me buy a new car. In fact, they even paid for the out-of-warranty replacement. Contrast that to what Microsoft is proposing. Under an MS-like plan, Honda would have refused to enable the automobile and would have told me to get a new one. Or, if your car failed an inspection would it be a reasonable action by the State to disable the transmission so that, while the engine still ran, the car would no longer move? I think not. There are numerous ways to bypass secure ignition systems just as there numerous ways to bypass product activation. The manufacturer of the automobile just makes it tough, and expensive, on the poor guy who looses his key. Secure ignition systems do nothing to deter a determined thief any more than product activation deters a determined pirate. Heck, there was even a pirated version of FSX available all over the web two weeks prior to it going on sale anywhere. The changes to the EULA for Vista only affect a very small portion of the user-base. But it's a major problem for anyone who's a part of that minority.Doug

[Guest Charlie]

When I saw that you had posted a response, Tom, I thought sure I was a goner

[Guest Charlie]

>> The changes to the EULA for Vista only affect a very>small portion of the user-base. But it's a major problem for>anyone who's a part of that minority.>>DougDoug,I don't think I understand this comment. Can you explain what small minority are you talking about and why it would only affect them?

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Yes, the analogy with a car and inspections probably doesn't hold as well as it should. But, the point is the same, it is a matter of personal choice. I remember reading something recently about the monetary loss industry wide as a result of piracy. The figure of $30 Billion a year sticks in my memory. That seems to me to be a very large incentive to protect their products in whichever manner that they can create. If those protection schemes do not suit you, then again, your choice.EDIT: As to your point regarding pulling this thread; I think this is a conversation that is worth having. I don't think a boycott of MS products will necessarily accomplish anything, but I understand the frustration that leads to that conclusion.

[Guest Charlie]

>EDIT: As to your point regarding pulling this thread; I think>this is a conversation that is worth having. I don't think a>boycott of MS products will necessarily accomplish anything,>but I understand the frustration that leads to that>conclusion.Thank you for your understanding, Tom. It is truly a pleasure to participate in the AVSIM forums.

[Guest panda234]

"Its all about personal choice folks."This is the crux of the problem. It's not about personal choice. If I want to use FX and DX10 I have to use Vista. What happens if I change my mb? Harddisk? What counts as a new device? If my mb gets zapped I have to pay $300 for Vista because I have a new device and the old one dosn't even exist anymore? We have no choice but to accept whatever licensing arrangements MS has because we have nowhere else to go. I hope this changes, and I'll be first in line when an alternative shows up, but for now I'm stuck. I'm not very happy about it, but first chance I get I'm buying something else. And that goes for all of their products. This just totally sucks. Unbelievable....billg

[Guest Charlie]

>"Its all about personal choice folks.">>This is the crux of the problem. It's not about personal>choice. If I want to use FX and DX10 I have to use Vista. What>happens if I change my mb? Harddisk? What counts as a new>device? If my mb gets zapped I have to pay $300 for Vista>because I have a new device and the old one dosn't even exist>anymore? >>We have no choice but to accept whatever licensing>arrangements MS has because we have nowhere else to go. I hope>this changes, and I'll be first in line when an alternative>shows up, but for now I'm stuck. I'm not very happy about it,>but first chance I get I'm buying something else. And that>goes for all of their products. This just totally sucks.>Unbelievable....>>billg>:-beerchug

[Guest B1900 Mech]

I think this article http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/featchomsky_63_p.htm illustrates perfectly how microsoft gets away with this, Don't be lazy,read the whole thing, Noam has very good points about the computer industry being subsidized by the tax payers. How ironic that we,as consumers have the power to stop all this madness. No personal attacks please:-)

[Sonar5 3]

I'll take lazy over reading anything from Noam. I pass...

[Sonar5 3]

Hi all,I read the whole thread, and I don't think losing car keys and replacing them applies here. I don't feel we are talking about losing our Vista DVD disks here. Nor would car inspections apply, IMHO, as you don't have to get a new inspection when you change your alternator nor purchase new software for your car because you changed both your alternator and bought a new car battery. (Picture more amps and starting power) Same with Choice. Yes I have a choice, but when MS relases a product that will allegedly run more fetures on DX10 cards which are not even out now, if Vista comes out first, and I upgrade, and then I upgrade further to a New Vid card or HD, or MB, or Processor, my only choice is to keep inferior hardware to avoid a new license. That concerns me a little. Here is what I am concerned about. And maybe there is no cause for concern, I'm not sure.I am concerned when the MS License which is here:http://download.microsoft.com/documents/us...1a72651b7a3.pdfWhen it talks about "DEVICE". The word device occurs 67 times in that license.Here are some of the interesting ones:1) "b. License Model. The software is licensed on a per copy per device basis."2) "2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. Before you use the software under a license, you must assign that license to one device (physical hardware system). That device is the

[Guest Charlie]

First just a bit of advice. If you post a lengthy article and want to motivate others to read it, there are better ways than to say "Don't be lazy".I've never heard of this guy, but I see that he describes himself as a libertarian socialist. Now there's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.Anyway, thanks, but I really didn't have the dismantling of western civilization and capitalism in mind. Let's stick to Microsoft's unacceptably restrictive license practices and their outrageous intent to spy on your system regularly with "validation checks".

[mgh 89]

Tom"The figure of $30 Billion a year sticks in my memory. That seems to me to be a very large incentive to protect their products in whichever manner that they can create. If those protection schemes do not suit you, then again, your choice."I was recently in a country in the far east. I came across a multi-story computer shop, three stories of which were openly devoted to selling pirated copies of the latest software from, Microsoft, Borland, Autodesk, Adobe etc, etc. As far as I could see, there was no need for anyone in that country to buy legitimate versions of software.In the face of this level of piracy can Microsoft and other software companies be blamed for protecting their products?

[aentwis 61]

Good points!Having read through the posted EULA for Vista, a "Device" is definitely a partition of a hard disk drive, amongst others of course. A reinstall on a new drive or even a dual boot option would constitute the use of the second license. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but it is not possible to use both instances of Windows on a dual boot setup. It is quite simply absurd to expect anyone to purchase additional licenses to cover dual boot operations...Back to "device" definitions... I would understand anything that alters the hardware footprint of a PC would lead to reactivation of Windows.As a volume license installer/user in a University environment, reactivation has never been an issue with XP, but I would be interested in what hardware changes necessitated reactivation under Windows XP. That would give at least some insight into what may necessitate reactivation under Vista.The issue of a maximum number of two processors is interesting as well. What is the projected life span of Vista, given that the possibility of multicore cpus beyond 2 in number is no longer simply an idea? XP's reactivation is at most a PITA, although understandable in terms of IPR, if you agree with the principles of IPR (not all law-abiding citizens do...). You don't have to pay out after a limited number or reactivations though. This new method is simply to maximise profits from those who are honest...I have great understanding for those wishing to boycott Vista, I am thinking along similar lines myself...Andrew

[Guest B1900 Mech]

Another good article,http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/index.php?p=158