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Future of DX10 Question?

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If I understand correctly, MOST of the complaints on the new Accelerator/SP2 package revolve around DX10/Vista problems. By comparison, FEW seem to be addressed to SP2 and DX9 implementation within XPPro.Phil has made it clear concerning the future for SP2:"There is no plan to provide any additional fixes in SP2. None, zilch, nada."My question is, does this include DX10 or possibly is work still being done for this item separately regarding improvement by patch/fixes? Obviously, this will have some influence relative to the wisdom of upgrading ONLY to be able to use DX10.I am not trying to start up another out of control post that immediately smells bad (Thanks for the blocks Tom), but would like a simple definitive yes or no answer to this question. If it has already been made clear in another post, I apologize for overlooking it.Respectfully:RTH

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Aside from the release of the SP2 free update, there will no no more work done for FSX period. End of sentence. ;)

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Thanks Bill:That's not exactly what I hoped to hear, and I sense that it may not be exactly what you wish you could say, but it certainly is a decisive answer and I appreciate the reply. I realize that the frustration and irritation we the users suffer may not even approach what you face on the developer's end. Your efforts and that of others like you are appreciated.I think I will just wait until SP2 alone becomes available and see what falls out with it by itself implementing only DX9 and XP. What I read concerning the added missions and the three added aircraft has little appeal to me.I sure hope that this does not make Eaglesoft's task in the supply of your fine contributions even more difficult. I would hate to see the development of the new Citation X grounded.Keep up the good work and thanks again!RTH

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I'm sure it does make their task more difficult because none of my eaglesoft aircraft work in dx10.

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Thanks:I still don't want to start anything here, but it sure seems to me that we are coming up with a common domminatore upon which MS has closed the door. Sure hope I am wrong.Who knows, maybe two or three years from now, all of this will be academic. I sure hope so, (but kinda doubt it). On the other hand, we may be seeing exactly signs of the future (both good and bad).Respectfully:RTH

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Well put, that certainly seems to be the case! Does however make a decision on whether or not to to upgrade to Vista a very easy one now especially in light of the performance data released by PMDG with their new B747-400X.Bruceb

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and before we start the name-calling, lets wait for the January Vista SP and see what that brings

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HelloVista SP will probably bring DX10.2 and make obsolete another generation of GFX cards before we even have DX10 working properly.Still it is saving me a fortune in hardware upgrades while i wait for this mess to get sorted.

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>Hello Bill>>Correct me if i am wrong but it looks to me like>Aces/Microsoft have given up already on correctly implementing>DX10 on a product that was originally touted as a DX10>showcase title.>>>http://www.freewebs.com/reading1871/30.jpgThat does seem to be the case. From a showcase title to a half-hearted attempt to deliver just enough to satisfy the requirement. I was really looking forward to dx10 and its abilities and am just very disappointed now over what I see. I hope it's just a simple driver issue but the fact that they labeled it 'dx10 preview' speaks volumes to the fact that they couldn't get it working right so shipped it as a tech demo for people to see. I hesitate to speak my mind here because this forum has a very bad reputation on the other forums as being ban-happy for people that don't follow the party line and from the number of people that didn't seem to say anything wrong I have seen banned in my short time here it looks like it may be well deserved. Please forgive me if I have stepped out of line.

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I also wanted to add that the sim runs marvelously now in dx9 after sp2 and acceleration were installed. The menus are much more zippy and the textures are crisper. I unfortunately didn't buy the pack for 'the pack', I bought it to get the dx10 patch that I have been waiting so patiently for for the last year. Those extreme articles were pretty enlightening though. At least us early adopters are all in this debacle together! ;)

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>I hesitate to speak my mind here because this>forum has a very bad reputation on the other forums as being>ban-happy for people that don't follow the party lineThen that's a reputation based on falsehoods.People get banned for being un-civil and downright mean.A person can speak their mind, as long as it's civil and nice.You look at every person kicked off, and it was because they posted hangmen's nooses towards ACES employees, or said ACES was lazy or lied, or called someone stupid, etc. etc.I'd like to know how those things are "not following the party line".RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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I dont know what to tell you mace that's just what i read. i saw 2 people alone this week get chastised and booted for what i thought were very politely worded and well thought out posts that went against the grain. The point is moot anyway as it isnt my forum to moderate but from what i can see so far the rep is deserved. We just see things differently i suppose. No worries ;)

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>Hello Bill>>Correct me if i am wrong but it looks to me like>Aces/Microsoft have given up already on correctly implementing>DX10 on a product that was originally touted as a DX10>showcase title.What many people seem to continuously overlook are that there are FOUR MAJOR COMPONENTS for DX10 implementation:1) The operating system - Vista2) The video hardware - nVidea and ATI3) The video driver - nVidea and ATI4) The application program - FSXLet's examine each of these "COMPONENTS" briefly, shall we?First of all, Vista was "late to deliver." Indeed, Vista still hasn't fully delivered, in spite of all the years of development and beta testing, various "hotfixes" and a major Service Release. Even with the forthcoming SR2 it's unlikely that all issues will be solved. You can put lipstick on a pig all you like, but it remains a pig. ;)Secondly, nVidea was months late in delivering first generation hardware, and no game studios (ACES included) received any hardware for testing until far too late in their development cycle to allow adequate time for coding and testing prior to their scheduled release dates.ATI was very late to the DX10 party, and for all practical purposes may as well have stayed at home. Their first generation cards were a complete, utter failure.Thirdly, nVidea still hasn't gotten their act together with regards to feature set and stability in their driver(s). Of course, to be entirely fair to nVidea (and to some extent ATI), they too are trying to work with an unstable and problematic operating system known as Vista... :-lol How can anyone seriously expect ACES to fully deliver on the DX10 experience, considering that none of the necessary THREE PREREQUISITE COMPONENTS are ready for prime-time?All this is ACES fault, how?I am quite honestly baffled by the illogic and absence of critical thinking as demonstrated by some of the comments I've read over the past few months.

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Bill, I am new here and i dont think this thread is the place to discuss it, but suffice it to say I disagree with JUST about everything there that you wrote. Once again the point is moot because dx10 doesnt work well and honestly that is all the consumer knows or cares about and that falls back on microsoft and aces. Fair? Probably not, but that's where we are.

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Soooo..what you're saying is that, we've put the cart ahead of the horse...again?Now that never happens...LOL :-eek

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>Bill, I am new here and i dont think this thread is the place>to discuss it, but suffice it to say I disagree with JUST>about everything there that you wrote. Once again the point is>moot because dx10 doesnt work well and honestly that is all>the consumer knows or cares about and that falls back on>microsoft and aces. Fair? Probably not, but that's where we>are.You are of course free to disagree all you like. That doesn't alter the fact that everything I wrote is easily verifiable by anyone to cares enough to do the research required.As for the last remark, no that is not "fair." It would be "fair" to blame "Microsoft" since "they" are ultimately responsible for Vista, but it is grossly unfair to cast any blame on ACES, who're just as much victims of this mess as the consumer.If your car runs badly because of a bad tank of gas, do you assign blame to the car manufacturer or to the gas company?

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I completely agree that it is unfair to blame ACES, but I also don't think they're as much victims as the consumer. They may have their feelings hurt on a regular basis, which is no fun, but it is the consumer who invested many hundreds of dollars in a directx 10 capable card and the Vista operating system based on the marketing of Microsoft and Nvidia and partners/ATI.I almost think the Acceleration package should have been released free, as a way of consoling those who invested heavily for directx 10. Either that or the entire Acceleration development funds and work hours been dedicated to directx 10 development, then there would have been a couple more features. The argument that j0nx is making is almost irrefutable, though people will certainly try, because it's so self-evident. The consumer does not care about bureaucratic reasons for being, subjectively speaking, ripped off. And just because he or she may choose to unfairly cast blame, that doesn't make them wrong about the thing that made them angry in the first place.

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Bill, last time i checked the box it said MICROSOFT flight simulator on it! Aces may be the dev but to the consumer it IS microsoft and they are one and the same. I dont want to make speculation about whether or not aces got special access from microsoft during the dx10 development cycle (although that would make sense) so i would encourage you not to assume anything either. When the box says Microsoft on it and dx10 doesnt work well then I start to worry. I have done the research as you say and my point remains that many of those comments in your last post are your opinions and yours only. I just want to enlighten you as to why people think the way they do. I see in your signature that you are a programmer as well. Well most of us are just average run of the mill people who dont know or care to know why dx10 doesnt work. We just want it to work.To coin a poor analogy:If my car comes from the factory with a broken engine that wont run right, do i blame the engine company or the car company? Of course i blame the car company because they are the ones that made the car. I could care less who made the motor or how it got broken. As a consumer i just want it fixed. Maybe now you see. Cheers, and at least dx9 works great!!

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>Bill, last time i checked the box it said MICROSOFT flight>simulator on it! Aces may be the dev but to the consumer it IS>microsoft and they are one and the same.Point. Although ACES themselves are "consumers" of their parent company's Vista product just like everyone else, from the average "consumers's point of view" that distinction makes no real difference - even if they were aware of it to begin with.Of course, education has been known as an effective tool for the relief of ignorance, n'est pas?>I have done the>research as you say and my point remains that many of those>comments in your last post are your opinions and yours only. "Opinion" or "Fact"?1. The public release of Vista was late; very late; months late...2. nVidea was late getting first-generation hardware into game studio hands. Read the blogs of ACES developers for the precise date, but it wasn't until there were less than four months until FSX's scheduled release date.3a. nVidea driver(s) are still buggy, and do not play nicely or reliably.3b. ATI's first-generation hardware was withdrawn from the market. There is no second-generation hardware - yet.Let's look at another analogy... It takes Vodka and orange juice to make a Screwdriver. If you have to substitute Gin and Milk of Magnesia instead, what do you wind up with?...a Phillips Screwdriver, of course! :-beerchug

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Guys,The fact of the matter is that you are BOTH CORRECT.They say: "'Stuff' rolls down hill" The tradgedy is that the consumer as well as ACES are left at the bottom looking up with their mouths wide open.This entire situation should have never made it to this stage to begin with.The consumer regardless of what level (in house dev-i.e. ACES or end user-you and I + add on 3rd party devs) of consumer you are should never have had to see let alone deal with these issues.Having said that...the fact the ACES have chosen to make the buck stop with them when they probably shouldn't have (to a certain extent), I feel deserves our support rather than the objects of our frustration, becuase they are doing everything in their power to try and make things right.Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to give anyone a free pass, but I think this situation most definately warrants all of us here to at least make sure we understand the big picture.I hope that puts a better perspective on things.

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