EFB and A/P correct functionality with the LNAV for PMDG in

[LRBS 953]

EFB and  A/P correct functionality with the LNAV for PMDG in MSFS2020

 

On the EFB, one of the standard worldwide requirements is to have an accelerate-stop distance calculation information. The distance required to accelerate to V1 with all engines at takeoff power, experience an engine failure at V1, abort the takeoff, and bring the airplane to a stop using braking action only (use of thrust reversing is not considered). That takeoff distance must not exceed the length of the runway or any stopway/clearway. Besides meeting regulatory requirements, it is also crucial during line operations and decision-making.

 

The airplane's FMC, A/P, FD, and LNAV integration is not functioning as it should, leading to abnormal flight behavior. Clearly, it can be observed that the airplane is not tracking correctly the magenta line, oscillations left/right before and after the WPT passage, bank oscillations during turns, and very jerky and unrealistic behaviors.  This has nothing to do with the new/older nav data format or RF segments. It's a coding problem with FMC, A/P, FD, and LNAV integration.

I hope they understand, take a break from bringing another product on the market with the same broken problems, and fix these issues for the ones already released. While their products are pretty good, these problems should be addressed before anything else.

[JYW 2,990]

Alas, something that was once labelled by PMDG in their development updates as "LNAV V2.0" has been incoming for many years; going back to the P3D version of the 737s (perhaps even the FSX versions).

I'm not convinced we'll ever see a new, ground-up LNAV system for the 737.

Perhaps if PMDG openly consulted with other developers. But they are quite an insular development group and I can't see that happening.

I'm sure there'll be some tweaks but nothing groundbreaking.

[/conjecture mode]

Edited December 2, 2023 by JYW

[tfm 196]

The flight sim world has two distinctive types of people: those who are convinced PMDG is the greatest thing for flight sim ever. And those who used to be ;) 

[Bobsk8 12,880]

I just don't get it,, been flyng Boeings since the Level D came out well over a decade ago, and I don't see these problems in the PMDG 737 for MSFS.  I must be doing something wrong. 😉

[threexgreen 3,160]

1 minute ago, Bobsk8 said:

I just don't get it,, been flyng Boeings since the Level D came out well over a decade ago, and I don't see these problems in the PMDG 737 for MSFS.  I must be doing something wrong. 😉

Do you never look at what the plane's doing when crossing a waypoint in a turn? Otherwise no idea how one couldn't notice the oscillations.

As for this thread, not sure what posting the same things again on AVSIM is going to achieve other than another complain-about-PMDG-thread (no offense). PMDG won't see this here.

[Bobsk8 12,880]

1 minute ago, threegreen said:

Do you never look at what the plane's doing when crossing a waypoint in a turn? Otherwise no idea how one couldn't notice the oscillations.

As for this thread, not sure what posting the same things again on AVSIM is going to achieve other than another complain-about-PMDG-thread (no offense). PMDG won't see this here.

Let see about 15 IFR flights per week, and yes, I do see what  the aircraft is doing when it crosses a waypoint. I just get tired of reading how bad this aircraft is from a small group of people. It really gets old. 

[threexgreen 3,160]

3 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I do see what  the aircraft is doing when it crosses a waypoint.

Then why did you just say you don't? 

[carlanthony24 580]

Has Threegreen has said you definetely notice in turns how bad it actually is. Maybe we will get to see LNAV 2.0 at some point won't hold my breath though. 😉

[Bobsk8 12,880]

6 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Then why did you just say you don't? 

I do not see the problem that few few say exists. Is that clear now? I don't see any issue, it seems fine.  😉But I am not a member in good standing of the PMDG bashers club. so maybe that's the reason. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Bobsk8

[Christopher Low 5,400]

I was under the impression that LNAV 2.0 was supposed to have been released ages ago, but maybe it is part of the EFB project funding?

[threexgreen 3,160]

9 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I do not see the problem that few few say exists.

Well but then you're not seeing what the airplane does in a waypoint turn. 

[Fiorentoni 4,412]

59 minutes ago, LRBS said:

EFB and  A/P correct functionality with the LNAV for PMDG in MSFS2020

 

On the EFB, one of the standard worldwide requirements is to have an accelerate-stop distance calculation information. The distance required to accelerate to V1 with all engines at takeoff power, experience an engine failure at V1, abort the takeoff, and bring the airplane to a stop using braking action only (use of thrust reversing is not considered). That takeoff distance must not exceed the length of the runway or any stopway/clearway. Besides meeting regulatory requirements, it is also crucial during line operations and decision-making.

 

The airplane's FMC, A/P, FD, and LNAV integration is not functioning as it should, leading to abnormal flight behavior. Clearly, it can be observed that the airplane is not tracking correctly the magenta line, oscillations left/right before and after the WPT passage, bank oscillations during turns, and very jerky and unrealistic behaviors.  This has nothing to do with the new/older nav data format or RF segments. It's a coding problem with FMC, A/P, FD, and LNAV integration.

I hope they understand, take a break from bringing another product on the market with the same broken problems, and fix these issues for the ones already released. While their products are pretty good, these problems should be addressed before anything else.

While you are not wrong, you are blowing the LNAV situation out of proportion IMO. For a 60 dollar home entertainment product LNAV et al. is pretty good on the 737 (except for the occasional critical bug after an update) and will likely - considering the amount and cost of work they'd have to put into it - never be improved any further. What you describe is noticeable if you really look out for it, but it's nuances and never has any detrimental effect on a flight or on the general immersion and plausibility. This is not the CRJ after all. And please for the sake of our sanity, don't make them delay the 777 any further for whatever reason there is.

[LRBS 953]

@Bobsk8, the issue being discussed here is not about criticizing the aircraft. It's a genuine observation raised by real-world pilots who work with this equipment or other similar ones. They hope for a solution to a problem that is affecting the proper functionality of the aircraft. It is important to understand that this is the only concern being expressed here.

It seems that you are not familiar with the systems or are unwilling to acknowledge the issue since you don't observe any incorrect behavior before or after Waypoint (WPT) and oscillations. Your consistent lack of problems with the aircraft is not the case for everyone, and it's frustrating to hear you imply otherwise.

 

@threegree, I appreciate your comment and I agree with you completely. However, what you may not know is that I have been banned by the PMDG forum administrator for being critical of certain issues regarding functionality and for presenting real findings related to certain requests. Additionally, it seems that writing tickets to report problems is not an effective way of getting acknowledgment for the issues.

 

@Fiorentini, as a real pilot (flying the line for at least 60 Hrs/mo around the world), I assure you that the LNAV issue is not out of proportion. The issue is related to the integration between the autopilot and flight director with the Flight Management Computer (FMC) and Lateral Navigation (LNAV). I disagree with the notion that general immersion and plausibility are not important, as these issues are a critical factor and do not resemble the 737 in any way. I am concerned that these problems will also exist in the upcoming 777 model.

Edited December 2, 2023 by LRBS

[Gazzareth 832]

26 minutes ago, LRBS said:

@Fiorentini, as a real pilot (flying the line for at least 60 Hrs/mo around the world), I assure you that the LNAV issue is not out of proportion. The issue is related to the integration between the autopilot and flight director with the Flight Management Computer (FMC) and Lateral Navigation (LNAV). I disagree with the notion that general immersion and plausibility are not important, as these issues are a critical factor and do not resemble the 737 in any way. I am concerned that these problems will also exist in the upcoming 777 model.

 

Completely and utterly twisting what was said there to meet your agenda.

Can't say I've noticed the issue, but I'm not a real world pilot. Will see if I can see it on my next flight.......

G

[Maxis 1,887]

I agree with Threegreen and Fiorentini on both their points. Mr Randazzo i do not think visits these forums and he typically makes it a point to avoid them. PMDG seems to be very polarizing around these parts and it just confounds me how these topics repeatedly come up even though everyone on both sides of the argument knows no one (of importance from PMDG) is going to take advisement on these things.

The topic must be brought to bear on their forums. The issue of the op losing his posting privileges over there is unfortunate but the point still stands that this concern needs to be brought up over there. Bringing it over here does nothing unless its just brought up to "vent".

Ill now go back to reading these "PMDG topics" to see if there is any actual information or announcement of a feature to read about and abstain  from posting if nothing new from the Dev is posted.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Maxis