I find it interesting that PMDG censor real pilot's observations of one of their products knowing everyday flyers like myself, who have no experience flying any of these planes in real life, won't notice the issues these pilots bring forward. It seems really dishonest, especially if this issue has never really been addressed or acknowledged.

FWIW I love flying the 737 and think it's a brilliant plane in the sim but that behaviour over on the PMDG forums is shady af.

2 hours ago, Maxis said:

The issue of the op losing his posting privileges over there is unfortunate

The fact that PMDG bans paying customers for pointing out issues with a product, which can be corroborated with fact is pretty upsetting and downright crummy company policy.
 

For PMDG to announce (years ago) that an LNAV 2.0 is in the works, is an admission that that system obviously needs updating and isn’t perfect. While it’s unlikely a home entertainment flight sim will ever have a “perfect” LNAV, it certainly would be nice if they finally released an updated version. 
 

I’m not holding my breath, though. It took them years to release a very average, uninspiring EF…er UFT and considering they’ve claimed an LNAV 2.0 is under development for almost a decade, I doubt we’ll ever see it. 
 

 

 

5 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

While you are not wrong, you are blowing the LNAV situation out of proportion

Whilst I do see the issue (it really is there for all to see), there is a lot of the above that goes on too. The LNAV is not to a high level of fidelity where turns are concerned, but it doesn't stop me thoroughly enjoying the PMDG 737, in terms of all the good 'stuff' it does.

1 hour ago, El Diablito said:

I find it interesting that PMDG censor real pilot's observations of one of their products knowing everyday flyers like myself, who have no experience flying any of these planes in real life, won't notice the issues these pilots bring forward. It seems really dishonest, especially if this issue has never really been addressed or acknowledged.

Everyone can see that the plane is wonky flying turns in LNAV (and the F/D is erratic at times). This has nothing to do with being a pilot. PMDG have also acknowledged this, and while I don't know why the OP has been banned PMDG are most certainly not targeting real pilots to silence them to hide stuff from non-pilots that's obvious and acknowledged by them anyway. The issue is that they haven't improved this behavior yet, which is indeed disappointing.

If anything, this thread just shows that people can't go 2 weeks without a PMDG-complain-thread repeating the same things for the umpteenth time, regardless of whether there are legitimate issues or not. This fixation is just weird.

4 hours ago, threegreen said:

Everyone can see that the plane is wonky flying turns in LNAV (and the F/D is erratic at times). This has nothing to do with being a pilot. PMDG have also acknowledged this, and while I don't know why the OP has been banned PMDG are most certainly not targeting real pilots to silence them to hide stuff from non-pilots that's obvious and acknowledged by them anyway. The issue is that they haven't improved this behavior yet, which is indeed disappointing.

If anything, this thread just shows that people can't go 2 weeks without a PMDG-complain-thread repeating the same things for the umpteenth time, regardless of whether there are legitimate issues or not. This fixation is just weird.

I will briefly explain the sequence of events that led to my ban on the forum by their administrator. I expressed my dissatisfaction regarding product discrepancies and broken promises about fixing LNAV and AP interface after so many years.  I was told that repairing these problems is not a priority and that the average "sim pilot" wouldn't notice them. My following statement was that is a pity not having it fixed, taking into consideration the complexity of the software.

 Next, I was told I had to sign my posts with my real name. I explained that, due to my airline regulations, we are not allowed to use our real names on social media, which is why I prioritize my privacy. At the same time, I questioned the validity of his belief that all customers list their real names. That was the end of it.

And yes, those are valid complaints about bugs that are constantly right in front of our eyes, reproducing every flight.

To conclude, demanding the use of real names in a public forum on the internet when it's unnecessary, that is a real bizarre fixation. Like everyone else, you value your privacy. That's why you chose "treegreen".

Edited December 3, 20232 yr by LRBS

15 hours ago, LRBS said:

@Fiorentini, as a real pilot (flying the line for at least 60 Hrs/mo around the world), I assure you that the LNAV issue is not out of proportion. The issue is related to the integration between the autopilot and flight director with the Flight Management Computer (FMC) and Lateral Navigation (LNAV). I disagree with the notion that general immersion and plausibility are not important, as these issues are a critical factor and do not resemble the 737 in any way. I am concerned that these problems will also exist in the upcoming 777 model.

Not sure if you misunderstood or what is going on, because I never said immersion and plausibility are not important, I said the exact opposite. What I said was that those issues (again, we are not arguing if they exist) do not harm immersion and plausibility in a an entertainment sim. Actually even if the real 737 was having PMDG's LNAV I'd still have a completely safe and mostly comfortable flight with it as a pilot, so I'm not seeing the "criticalness" of what you describe. Feel free to post an example of that, maybe we are seeing different things.

By the way I agree with your disapproval of their forum policing, it's become a sad place.

Edited December 3, 20232 yr by Fiorentoni

13 hours ago, Bdub22 said:

For PMDG to announce (years ago) that an LNAV 2.0 is in the works, is an admission that that system obviously needs updating

Correct. It's also why people are upset with PMDG. They've highlighted and failed to deliver on yet another promised project. RSR would do better to underpromise and overdeliver, rather than the opposite strategy he is currently using.

 

13 hours ago, JYW said:

The LNAV is not to a high level of fidelity where turns are concerned, but it doesn't stop me thoroughly enjoying the PMDG 737

I believe RSR knows this. LNAV is a problem, yet for most of his customers it isn't a showstopper. With no significant additional revenue to be made by upgrading the 737's LNAV to v2.0, we'll just have to live with v1.x

 

51 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

those issues [...] do not harm immersion and plausibility in a an entertainment sim.

The point is that PMDG products are implicitly marketed as having the most realistic systems recreation. Having a sloppy LNAV goes against that narrative and upsets people who still believe PMDG is the best airliner developer.

As for the 777, I don't believe it will be further delayed as it risks another developer coming in and taking market share. Unlikely, yet new developers are appearing and an early access 777 might be enough to shake up the add-on scene for Boeing airliners.

 

Edited December 3, 20232 yr by F737MAX

8 hours ago, LRBS said:

I will briefly explain the sequence of events that led to my ban on the forum by their administrator. I expressed my dissatisfaction regarding product discrepancies and broken promises about fixing LNAV and AP interface after so many years.  I was told that repairing these problems is not a priority and that the average "sim pilot" wouldn't notice them. My following statement was that is a pity not having it fixed, taking into consideration the complexity of the software.

 Next, I was told I had to sign my posts with my real name. I explained that, due to my airline regulations, we are not allowed to use our real names on social media, which is why I prioritize my privacy. At the same time, I questioned the validity of his belief that all customers list their real names. That was the end of it.

And yes, those are valid complaints about bugs that are constantly right in front of our eyes, reproducing every flight.

To conclude, demanding the use of real names in a public forum on the internet when it's unnecessary, that is a real bizarre fixation. Like everyone else, you value your privacy. That's why you chose "treegreen".

Banned from the forum for not using real name, well, that is their policy.

Are you still authorized using the PMDG Ticket system for support?

Also I just checked FSLabs:

FsLabs Ruel 1 Use your REAL NAME as the Display Name:

1. Use your REAL NAME as the Display Name. 
Also - NO duplicate registrations. 
You are just one person - you are not allowed to have more than one username. 
It's a violation of this agreement and downright unethical - don't do it. 
Contact the administrators if you feel there was an error with your registration username.

https://forums.flightsimlabs.com/index.php?/terms/

Edited December 3, 20232 yr by vonmar

8 hours ago, LRBS said:

I will briefly explain the sequence of events that led to my ban on the forum by their administrator. I expressed my dissatisfaction regarding product discrepancies and broken promises about fixing LNAV and AP interface after so many years.  I was told that repairing these problems is not a priority and that the average "sim pilot" wouldn't notice them. My following statement was that is a pity not having it fixed, taking into consideration the complexity of the software.

 Next, I was told I had to sign my posts with my real name. I explained that, due to my airline regulations, we are not allowed to use our real names on social media, which is why I prioritize my privacy. At the same time, I questioned the validity of his belief that all customers list their real names. That was the end of it.

And yes, those are valid complaints about bugs that are constantly right in front of our eyes, reproducing every flight.

To conclude, demanding the use of real names in a public forum on the internet when it's unnecessary, that is a real bizarre fixation. Like everyone else, you value your privacy. That's why you chose "treegreen".

I'm not writing messages anymore on the PMDG forum because this absurd rule, I don't want my real name associated with flight simulators, that's it. I'm a violinmaker and more than once my customers (stringed instrument players), found my real name associated with flight simulators because the Google indexing. This was a not wanted coming out and it's a violation of my privacy. The PMDG forums are public, not private. I was not banned from the PMDG forums, but you cannot find my real name on my messages there.

13 hours ago, threegreen said:

Everyone can see that the plane is wonky flying turns in LNAV

Without any 1st hand knowledge of how the plane flies in real life or any other experience with a "normal" working LNAV in a sim, how would you notice this behaviour?

You shouldn't speak for "everyone". As mentioned by other posters and myself, I enjoy the feel of flying this aircraft as opposed to the very smooth feeling of the airbus and don't notice these issues you speak of, if anything there is an enjoyable challenge in flying it by hand out of a runway. 

The OP seems to have legitimate complaints about the profile of the AP in the sim version and PMDG seem to have a rep for not taking legitimate complaints constructively on their forum. I wouldn't know as I haven't posted there in any great deal, but there seems to be a consensus about that.

Edited December 3, 20232 yr by El Diablito

This is all fine and dandy, but why are you posting it here instead of on their Forum where it belongs?

There is nothing to discuss here and the probability of one of their developers seeing it and even more the person in charge of how development time is utilized is much higher there than here.

 

@Bdub22  No one censored anyone at the PMDG forums for raising concerns. The OP didn't want to abide by rules that PMDG has in place for over a decade.

Even when they were still using the AVSIM Forums as the home of their support forums they demanded that everyone posts under their real names.

They do that for 2 reasons: Being able to confirm that you actually own the product you are wanting support for and even more importantly, to keep you from deterioating your tone because you  simply can hide behind an alias. People who post under their real names, are thought to be a little bit more civi in a discussion. At least that has been PMGD's stance for a long, long time. Whether it is actually an effective way to achieve that I can't say.

They still have that rule and refusing to abide by it will get you banned.

And I find nothing more tedious than people who make a fuss over disclosing their real names on an internet forum, after they have been clearly told that this is the rule when signing up.

Don't like the rule? Then don't join. Simple.

Edited December 3, 20232 yr by Farlis

1 hour ago, F737MAX said:

With no significant additional revenue to be made by upgrading the 737's LNAV to v2.0, we'll just have to live with v1.x

What doesn't add up here though is that it was Randazzo himself who recently talked about how much the market has increased since MSFS came along. 

One would think revenue is not that much of a problem any longer when prioritzing development time.

 

I for one dislike nothing more than developers promising upgrades that never come.

21 minutes ago, Farlis said:

They still have that rule and refusing to abide by it will get you banned.

Should you not get banned for actual poor etiquette on a forum rather than what behaviour you might commit just because you don't want to divulge private information?

I've been a member of all kinds of forums for 20+ years and never heard of such a rule. It's a ridiculous rule no matter what way you frame it.

2 minutes ago, El Diablito said:

Should you not get banned for actual poor etiquette on a forum rather than what behaviour you might commit just because you don't want to divulge private information?

I've been a member of all kinds of forums for 20+ years and never heard of such a rule. It's a ridiculous rule no matter what way you frame it.

They make it very clear upon the sign up process that you must sign your real name. If you sign up and ignore that rule, you get shown the door, when asked to do it and refuse.

Simple as that. 

Nothing ridiculous about it.

 

I might also add that Facebook/Meta has the same rule and your Facebook User name must be your full real name. 

They are not very consistent at enforcing it automatically, but if you get reported for using an alias or a fake real name, your account will be suspended as well.

Edited December 3, 20232 yr by Farlis

Just now, Farlis said:

Nothing ridiculous about it.

It is ridiculous, because I can still use an alias. Do you have to give them your social security and home address too?