EFB and A/P correct functionality with the LNAV for PMDG in

[lwt1971 7,464]

56 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

I mean people (me including) have been talking about the apparent downfall of PMDG since FSL emerged, but objectively combining the quality and quantity (and by now the price!) PMDG is still the clear no. 1 in the entertainment sim market. For what it's worth.

And especially when it comes to Boeings.. the only other alternatives AFAIK for good levels of fidelity are the default aircraft in the sim (787/747) with Working Title's treatments. Hopefully Asobo/WT will keep increasing the simulation depth on these. At least from RSR's latest interview on SkyBlue radio he admits they've been slow to execute and also acknowledges the various perceptions out there in the community, and seems to have a plan to address that by beefing up their team. Hopefully fixing issues like this LNAV one is on their roadmap even if not publicly disclosed. Guess we'll see with the 777.
 

Edited December 3, 2023 by lwt1971

[BrammyH 467]

12 minutes ago, Farlis said:

Daniel Harding, internationally known conductor, also has a 2nd career as an airline pilot for Air France

Bruce Dickinson, singer for Iron Maiden is type rated in a bunch of birds too, He flew for  Astraeus airlines as a 757 captain. He also flew the Ed Force One 747 when Iron Maiden did their book of souls tour. Also a great episode of Ice Pilots where he flew Buffalo's DC-3

[Bobsk8 12,880]

1 hour ago, F737MAX said:

As an active member in this hobby of ours, of course you wouldn't see Flight Simming as anything different to those other hobbies you listed.

However, in the wider world, some hobbies are just considered to be nerdy/strange/weird, such as Quidditch—you're pretending to fly around, but aren't. Strange childish fantasy of being a broom pilot (see how that judgment can occur?) 

Ignorance and snobbery play a large part in that. However, when your customers are reviewing whether to instruct you/use your services and you are easily identifiable and linked to a 'weird hobby', they will often choose a competitor. Why? Because evidence shows people's decision-making is based more on negative reinforcement—the 'why shouldn't I choose this business over a similar one?' question.

Hmm, I have been a simmer for over three decades, I was a Training Manager for a high tech company and taught classes every week full of  tech people and people with college degrees , as well as military commissioned officers and a few airline pilots. They all knew that I was flight simmer ( because I talked about it in almost every class) , and I never received any negative comments or reactions because of it. If you really feel ashamed of what you do for enjoyment, maybe you should look for another hobby or a different set of friends or customers. 

[LRBS 953]

6 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

Not sure if you misunderstood or what is going on, because I never said immersion and plausibility are not important, I said the exact opposite. What I said was that those issues (again, we are not arguing if they exist) do not harm immersion and plausibility in a an entertainment sim. Actually even if the real 737 was having PMDG's LNAV I'd still have a completely safe and mostly comfortable flight with it as a pilot, so I'm not seeing the "criticalness" of what you describe. Feel free to post an example of that, maybe we are seeing different things.

By the way I agree with your disapproval of their forum policing, it's become a sad place.

I apologize for my misunderstanding. I'm sorry!

 

I understand that you are not seeing my "criticalness", but just to be noted, other real pilots like me and also desktop pilots noticed these issues. 

 

In real life, if the airplane exhibits this kind of behavior, there will be an entry in the MX log, and some action will be taken.

 

You can try a short flight from KJFK 31L  JFK5, to KEWR RNAV GPS X RWY 29, CASHH transition. After CRI, create a pilot-defined waypoint as PB/PB CRI207/CASHH140 and close the discontinuity to CASHH.

Use 10T of fuel and 50% payload, LNAV, VNAV at 500 FT Left A/P on.

 

Discrepancies:

 

At 420 FT the FD should have given a command left turn to CRI, it did not.

 

While inbound CRI, during turn there is a momentary L/R unnecessary bank.

 

Before CRI01 inbound CASHH we have a correct initial turn but before establishing on the course it can be noticed the FD  and aircraft rocking the wings L/R between 25 to 15 degrees bank.

 

Only between ZIAAA and PIJAY was a perfect transition without any hiccups. 

 

All the other WPTS passages show the same spikes L/R in the FD and A/P.

 

Unfortunately, this is just not an isolated example.

Edited December 3, 2023 by LRBS

[LRBS 953]

2 hours ago, threegreen said:

I've stopped posting there and removed my name from my signature because I don't like this policy myself. I was fine with it at first but not anymore. However, I fully understand that I cannot post there without abiding by their rules, and whether you or I like this policy or not doesn't matter. It's their place and they can put up whatever rules they like. So when you're aware of the rules, but sign with a false name, don't change this into your real name when asked to and make clear you don't agree with this rule, I don't know what you expected would happen. They have every right then to ban you, even if you and I don't agree with the rule.

What I don't understand though is why you keep the narrative that you were banned for bringing up legitimate issues. If what you described here is what happened, you were clearly banned for openly refusing to follow their rule of signing with your real name, NOT for raising an issue with their product. That claim is disingenuous.

More likely, I needed to be clearer, I see and respect your point. 

Initially, I was banned because of my complaint as to be "very critical", and a week later, the signature issue was the final straw. 

[JRBarrett 3,131]

46 minutes ago, Farlis said:

I'd also add that Daniel Harding, internationally known conductor, also has a 2nd career as an airline pilot for Air France. At least he was flying for them before the pandemic, I don't know if he still does.

And of course Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden who also had a second career as an airline pilot.

[F737MAX 5,738]

1 hour ago, JRBarrett said:

Well, I have been deeply involved in flight simulation for over 40 years, and there is literally nobody who knows me personally who is unaware of that fact. I have never encountered any negative perception/reaction from anyone regarding my hobby. Reactions range from “that’s interesting, tell me more” to “meh”, but no negativity towards me (personally) for having that interest.

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

maybe you should look for another hobby or a different set of friends or customers. 

Ah, Bob.
Your world may be as black and white as that, but in the real world, we don't always get to choose our customers, lest we become bankrupt.
OTOH, my friends know that I flight sim.

 

Sounds as if if's a cultural thing. Flight simmers in the USA appear to have had no problem divulging that piece of info. In other parts of the world, people have spoken about some of my previous colleagues and some competitors negatively after discovering habits and hobbies considered outside the norm.

In 20 years of working in various industries and countries, I've discovered a shared common hobby that nearly everyone has: passing judgment on another person.

 

1 hour ago, Farlis said:

I'd also add that Daniel Harding, internationally known conductor, also has a 2nd career as an airline pilot for Air France. At least he was flying for them before the pandemic, I don't know if he still does.

1 hour ago, BrammyH said:

Bruce Dickinson, singer for Iron Maiden is type rated in a bunch of birds too, He flew for  Astraeus airlines as a 757 captain. He also flew the Ed Force One 747 when Iron Maiden did their book of souls tour. Also a great episode of Ice Pilots where he flew Buffalo's DC-3

Interesting to know, though irrelevant to the point being made.
Being a real pilot as a secondary career/part-time job/pastime is in no way treated the same as 'pretend flying'.

[Fiorentoni 4,412]

56 minutes ago, LRBS said:

I understand that you are not seeing my "criticalness", but just to be noted, other real pilots like me and also desktop pilots noticed these issues. 

I *do* notice these issues. I just don't think they are critical. "Critical" in my book is what the CRJ autopilot does for example.
Though considering your example flight I tend to agree that the FD being completely erratic at times should be fixed rather sooner than later, since it's endangering flight safety during manual flight. But that bug seems to be have been introduced only recently, so I don't think that'll stay like this for long.

[F737MAX 5,738]

2 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

I mean people (me including) have been talking about the apparent downfall of PMDG since FSL emerged

Which is a ridiculous notion, in retrospect, as there has been no effective competition to PMDG.
Apart from iFlyJets with their 737 and 747 in FSX/P3D, no-one has dared to produce a detailed Boeing which would compete with the PMDG product line.
BlueBird Sim has staked its claim on 757 and 767. JustFlight may develop the 747-200. Otherwise, it's just the very basic versions from Bredok and CaptainSim.

PMDG is acting like a true monopolist in so far as the same functionality of their 737NGXu from P3D has been brought to MSFS and charging a high price for the privilege.
Unlike most people here, I don't think the full quality is there any longer. Nosewheel steering isn't great, engine spool times were only recently addressed, animations and texturing are nowhere near the quality freeware developers are producing, and allowing the SimBrief import bug to have a workaround rather than be addressed before publishing the latest version shows a lack of care for their customers, IMO.

But (and it is a big but), there's no-one else producing acceptable modern Boeing airliners at this moment in time. More importantly, there aren't any showstopping issues.
For those reasons, a fair critic can call PMDG disappointing in some aspects, yet must acknowledge that the flight sim environment is better for having their products in it.
 

Edited December 3, 2023 by F737MAX

[Claudius_ 326]

7 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

It seems strange that violinists would have second thoughts about using your services as a luthier because you engage in flight simulation as a hobby, or why you would want to conceal that fact from your customers as if it was something shameful.

I am sure there are people in your profession who also enjoy gourmet cooking, or playing golf, or horseback riding, and wouldn’t feel they have to hide their other interests apart from instrument making.

You right, but Google isn't indexing you while you are playing golf. I like sharing my flight sim enthusiasm, but without anything or anyone violating my privacy as PMDG is doing.

[Orlaam 320]

I agree, and have stated what the original poster is complaining about.  Unfortunately, a moderate number of users just want more planes in their hangar, and the underlying issues that didn't exist in previous PMDG aircraft don't get fixed because the rally cry is for more long haulers!  God forbid a problem exist in the upcoming 777 or 747, you better believe they'll b*** and moan about it.

It's even more asinine that the issues the 737 have are really a minority and could be buttoned up in a matter of weeks, but we're selfish for wanting a fix or even noticing it at all. 

[threexgreen 3,160]

14 hours ago, F737MAX said:

and allowing the SimBrief import bug to have a workaround rather than be addressed before publishing the latest version shows a lack of care for their customers, IMO.

A tiny bug thay didn't show itself before the update was out the door with an easy workaround that's going to be fixed 7 days later is what's showing lack of care for customers? At this rate no one's ever going to be satisfied with anything. There's things like roll behavior and the F/D that are significant. Picking out stuff like this Simbrief bug and drawing that conclusion from it is why I've long had the impression people are looking for anything to criticize, and why every PMDG discussion is so tedious, imho. Extending criticism from legit points to nitpicking everything (no offense).

Edited December 4, 2023 by threegreen

[El Diablito 330]

19 hours ago, threegreen said:

What I don't understand though is why you keep the narrative that you were banned for bringing up legitimate issues.

I see now how this was being portrayed and understand it better. With my minimum experience using any PMDG products and being around these forums it's clear they are sometimes unjustly beaten with a stick. I apologise if I misrepresented the issue with my initial post without knowing the full picture. Back to the skies for me!

[Claudius_ 326]

21 hours ago, Farlis said:

They make it very clear upon the sign up process that you must sign your real name. If you sign up and ignore that rule, you get shown the door, when asked to do it and refuse.

Simple as that. 

Nothing ridiculous about it.

 

I might also add that Facebook/Meta has the same rule and your Facebook User name must be your full real name. 

They are not very consistent at enforcing it automatically, but if you get reported for using an alias or a fake real name, your account will be suspended as well.

The problem was when I discovered my real name associated with PMDG sim airplanes through Google engine search, this several years after my PMDG forum subscription (first here on AVSIM).

Regarding Facebook subscriptions, you have to use a real name, email and cellphone number, but you can use any alias you want. And I use my real name on Facebook because I want to use it for my old and new customers. I remember that in almost any public online forum you have the option to "anonymize" yourself. If you are forced to use your real name in a public forum, it's a privacy violation, doesn't matter if you accept their arbitrary rules at the forum subscription, and you don't pay attention to those rules because your flight sim enthusiasm and/or you need urgent assistance for problems regarding their products.

[threexgreen 3,160]

11 minutes ago, El Diablito said:

I see now how this was being portrayed and understand it better. With my minimum experience using any PMDG products and being around these forums it's clear they are sometimes unjustly beaten with a stick. I apologise if I misrepresented the issue with my initial post without knowing the full picture. Back to the skies for me!

No worries. There are differing opinions, but when I frequented their forums I have barely if ever come across anyone getting banned just for saying there's an issue with a product, and I've been one of those saying stuff needs to be fixed myself, and still didn't get in a fight with an admin much less get banned. I've seen some people getting banned but that was justified. There are also plenty of real pilots reporting stuff that's wrong all the time and they're still not banned.

I'm not saying what other people talk about never happened because I obviously don't spend 24/7 on their forum and if many report it there's probably something to it, but I'm taking it with a grain of salt as I've never seen it myself. The tone of admins can be pretty "direct" though.