The BEAUTY MSFS has turned into || 737NG Driver

[David Mills 4,774]

2 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

Right there with you 🙂.. started with Sublogic FS II on the Commodore 64 ...

Same here, except I was on the Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer, which you hooked up to your TV. I remember I had to upgrade my computer from its original 4K memory to 32K in order for Sublogic FS to run. (Not 32MB or 32GB. I mean 32KB.) And I'm not talking here about 32KB video memory. I'm talking about the entire system RAM of 32KB. To connect to the internet, I was a member of CompuServe, which, at that time, charged $32 an hour to connect. I later switched to Delphi, which only charged $15 an hour for internet service. Believe me, you planned your online activity carefully. I would usually connect for about 30 seconds to retrieve any email I had -- which could only be sent within the service itself. CompuServe could only send to CompuServe. Delphi could only send to Delphi. You would then stay offline to prepare any responses you had to these emails, and later connect just long enough to send out these text-only messages. Believe it or not, an hour of connect time easily lasted me throughout the entire month. Many of you have seen videos on YouTube quickly recapping the evolution of flight sim software from 1982 to the present. If you haven't, here's a good link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CchRwnTorjY

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by David Mills

[MarkW 1,502]

On 12/11/2023 at 3:04 PM, JBDB-MD80 said:

eh clickbait.... and I thought this guy was a new A330driver?

It is impossible to count the number of YouTuber's that started out picking the wrong name.

[jon b 2,078]

2 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

Right there with you 🙂.. started with Sublogic FS II on the Commodore 64 as a kid, when its big advance in tech was to go from wireframe 3D to solidly-filled-multi-color 3D lol. It def was amazing for the time.
 

 

44 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Same here, except I was on the Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer, which you hooked up to your TV. I remember I had to upgrade my computer from its original 4K memory to 32K in order for Sublogic FS to run. (Not 32MB or 32GB. I mean 32KB.) And I'm not talking here about 32KB video memory. I'm talking about the entire system RAM of 32KB. 

 

 

14 hours ago, eslader said:

Hehe.  Speak for yourself. 😉 Every time I load this freaking sim I think back to little-kid me, playing the Sublogic flight sim and thinking it was the most amazing thing ever, having no idea what was in store for me in the future. Almost makes the creaky knees and receding hairline worth it. 😉

 

Absolutely 👍🙂

Youth of today - I prescribe a one hour flight twice a day for one week in this, then come back here and try complaining 😂

https://s-macke.github.io/FSHistory/

[MDFlier 2,031]

5 hours ago, David Mills said:

Same here, except I was on the Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer, which you hooked up to your TV. I remember I had to upgrade my computer from its original 4K memory to 32K in order for Sublogic FS to run. (Not 32MB or 32GB. I mean 32KB.) And I'm not talking here about 32KB video memory. I'm talking about the entire system RAM of 32KB....

I know, right? Can you imagine some of these guys ever flying with actual white blobs for clouds and enjoying it? 🤣

We've come a long way for sure. I'm more than happy to see a couple of funky looking clouds every now and then. For where and when I fly, the clouds we have are more than acceptable. Can't wait to see what MSFS24024 has in store for us.

Edited December 13, 2023 by MDFlier

[Mace 1,967]

5 hours ago, jon b said:

 

 

Absolutely 👍🙂

Youth of today - I prescribe a one hour flight twice a day for one week in this, then come back here and try complaining 😂

https://s-macke.github.io/FSHistory/

I once designed my own "flight sim", circa 1987, on an Apple //e

It consisted of a horizon, which was a red line.   I then had the program accept joystick inputs...move joystick left, and the horizon line would dip on the left-hand side, simulating a turn to the left.   Move stick right...horizon dips on right-hand side...and it had climb/descend too --

--- but that's ALL it was -- no "scenery" or location.

Thus the full extent of my flight sim programming days.  That's what I did at age 14.  After that, real life took over and alas, I let others program a sim for me.  I think they're doing a better job...

[lwt1971 7,505]

3 hours ago, MDFlier said:

Can't wait to see what MSFS24024 has in store for us.

You and me both! From what they've shown at FSExpo it appears to be leaps forward in technology again, just wish they'd hurry up and do more previews now than waiting till Spring 2024 lol.

Edited December 14, 2023 by lwt1971

[Krakin 5,899]

8 hours ago, jon b said:

https://s-macke.github.io/FSHistory/

So amazing how something that used to require a subsantial investment to enjoy, can now be streamed on a tiny device with multiple versions instantly accessible. Tech marches forward

[eslader 1,822]

8 hours ago, jon b said:

 

 

Absolutely 👍🙂

Youth of today - I prescribe a one hour flight twice a day for one week in this, then come back here and try complaining 😂

https://s-macke.github.io/FSHistory/

I just spent much longer than necessary in there.  I remember the old keyboard-flying days. I'm no longer very good at that, but it sure brought back memories. I remember when FS5 came out, and the graphics, while abysmal by today's standards, were leaps and bounds ahead of FS4.  Played it for a week and went back to FS4 because the 486 SX/20 I had back then was mid-pack when new.  Even back then you had to have a beast of a system to run MSFS smoothly.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by eslader

[kdfw__ 545]

don't understand the whining about the msfs clouds, look great to me.  come a long way since zx81 psion flight simulator on cassette tape.  

[lwt1971 7,505]

Interesting to read Emi's (aka "A330 | 737NG Driver") thoughts on MSFS 2020 in the comments section of his youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4M5cRUVFnk), again it's of note given that he's dished out his share of criticisms over the years.

Emi: "I fully agree, if you take the first release version of MSFS and compare it with what we have now it's like the difference between night and day. A whole new universe! They indeed did an amazing job and all the issues aside, it is a great simulator - probably the best we ever had. I can't wait for FS24 and what it will hopefully offer!"

@pieterduplessis6906as: "a complete platform end to end, this is the top of the simming mountain and like other platforms it is evolving. so we have a lot to look forward to a honest video that gives you a passion for aviation, not just flight simulation"
Emi: "I couldn’t agree any more"
 

Edited December 14, 2023 by lwt1971

[abennett 177]

40 minutes ago, kdfw__ said:

don't understand the whining about the msfs clouds, look great to me.  come a long way since zx81 psion flight simulator on cassette tape

Of course it has come a long way since then, that is the nature of technology. However, it doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for better.

I am of the opinion that we shouldn't be comparing current computer software to that which is 40 years old and say, 'the graphics are way better now, isn't it amazing'. We should judge the current sim in its own time.

A lot of the clouds are unrealistic and poor looking by modern standards and the skies are the wrong colour, far too orange.

 

Just two examples. 

 

If one simply states that all is great because 'it is better than what we had 40 years ago, or 'they look OK for me', we won't see the improvements that would be beneficial for all.

When one can see the potential of the simulator, and how sometimes it looks amazing, it is all the more frustrating when one is met by something resembling one of the above images.

[lwt1971 7,505]

56 minutes ago, abennett said:

Of course it has come a long way since then, that is the nature of technology. However, it doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for better.

I am of the opinion that we shouldn't be comparing current computer software to that which is 40 years old and say, 'the graphics are way better now, isn't it amazing'. We should judge the current sim in its own time.

A lot of the clouds are unrealistic and poor looking by modern standards and the skies are the wrong colour, far too orange.

Some fair points and in your examples I'll disagree about the orange color thing as that's very subjective and also depends on the sun's position and other conditions (I'll definitely say that SU14 with the atmospheric color fixes is appreciably better than <=SU13).

Where I do agree with you is about the volcanic ash look, and that also is not as prevalent as the times when there are normal looking clouds (from my experience). So specifically about about the volcanic ash look and what Seb says here about it https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/640292-the-beauty-msfs-has-turned-into-737ng-driver/?do=findComment&comment=5042052 , what are your thoughts? I presume you'd be for using more computational cycles on the trade-offs he talks about.

I too expect them to strive for better, definitely in v2024 (where I hope we at least get pre-SU5/SU7 clouds in live weather), but let's also see what improvements they can keep doing in v2020 like they've been doing since SU7. But trying to cast off what we have now as "a lot of the clouds are unrealistic and poor looking by modern standards" is a bit hyperbolic IMO.  Countless examples of realistic clouds that I see in the sim, as seen in the pics by some on this thread and others, as seen in Emi's video, etc etc. Also not sure what "modern standards" you're referring to. The only time I've experienced better live-weather clouds than what we have currently in MSFS was pre-SU5 MSFS.
 

Edited December 14, 2023 by lwt1971

[GoranM 3,813]

18 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

I'll disagree about the orange color thing as that's very subjective and also depends on the sun's position

Let's try to have a discussion based in objectivity.  It could be a major breakthrough.

To me, the orange is fine.  Like you said.  It's subjective, and could resemble real world circumstances.  The clouds in the 2nd pic also look fine.  It's the nuclear fallout/Matrix real world look I have an issue with in that one.  

Regarding the orange, as a comparison, here's a real world photo I took, myself, a few years ago. 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by GoranM

[Christopher Low 5,415]

7 hours ago, eslader said:

I just spent much longer than necessary in there.  I remember the old keyboard-flying days. I'm no longer very good at that, but it sure brought back memories. I remember when FS5 came out, and the graphics, while abysmal by today's standards, were leaps and bounds ahead of FS4.  Played it for a week and went back to FS4 because the 486 SX/20 I had back then was mid-pack when new.  Even back then you had to have a beast of a system to run MSFS smoothly.

I actually preferred FS4. I thought that the shimmering mess of low resolution textures in FS5 looked horrible.

[eslader 1,822]

Yeah.  The 2d panels were much better, though. Not that we knew enough back then to know how much 2d panels suck, but...

😉