X-Plane shining in last navigraph-result

[Franz007 504]

5 hours ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Running XP12 I cannot run ONE monitor without stutters and/or flickers @ 4K? This is with multiple sliders moved one notch from full right. Keep in mind, I'm not even running a 3D cockpit/flight deck!!

This is weird because I can run it on 4K without stutters. But you are saying it could be related to the AMD-processor? This could be because I have an Intel one but also a Nvidia GPU.

Another thing i discovered was that ProcessLasso gave me stutters in some constellations; in case you are using it, you could try to deactivate it to check.

[Franz007 504]

10 hours ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Check out my settings near the end of the last video and with a I9-10900cpu and  3090 video board... I can't do this with a 7950x3D and 4090 video board.

Thanks for the explanations. So it may really be related to AMD then. But wouldn‘t all AMD-users have the same issue? 

[Mike_CFII_MEL 789]

59 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

You forgot my main question: why don‘t you switch to another sim you already own if it runs better? 😉

I can switch the flight deck between 2020 and XP12 just by moving two usb cables it's not that difficult, so I try to keep both platforms to date. If switching between sims was a bit more involved I would have moved the hardware over some time ago.

[Mike_CFII_MEL 789]

56 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

Thanks for the explanations. So it may really be related to AMD then. But wouldn‘t all AMD-users have the same issue? 

Could be, I'm not sure what was changed going forward from xp12b1. Tried everything I can think of with the exception of reinstalling XP12 from scratch. Could also try unchecking the beta box, tried that in the past, it didn't help.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Mike_CFII_MEL

[Murmur 3,944]

Maybe this could help:

 

[Franz007 504]

1 hour ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Could be, I'm not sure what was changed going forward from xp12b1. Tried everything I can think of with the exception of reinstalling XP12 from scratch. Could also try unchecking the beta box, tried that in the past, it didn't help.

I hope you will find out 🙏

[GoranM 3,772]

1 hour ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Tried everything I can think of with the exception of reinstalling XP12 from scratch.

Maybe try that.  You don't have to install scenery.  Just install the base sim and run a few tests.  That's been one of the main things developers ask people to try when there are issues.  If we can eliminate a rogue plug in, by way of a clean install, then troubleshooting becomes a lot easier.

Edited December 30, 2023 by GoranM

[mSparks 2,086]

16 minutes ago, GoranM said:

You don't have to install scenery.

scenery also has a habbit of being one of the common culprits. especially ancient plugins loaded from the scenery folder.

other here is 3X monitors at 4K is going to need FSR dialing up to handle the insane number of pixels getting thrown around. wouldnt surprise me is 2020 is turning DLSS on automatically.

Edited December 30, 2023 by mSparks

[The Seawolf 18]

7 hours ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

I have the same equipment as I did in XP12b1 where everything ran very smooth! My minimum plugin test consisted of the following plugins

XP12 - I have to run four computers for the flight deck - One computer for each display and one for glass screens and CDUs.

Zibo Mod plugin for the 737 airliner, Xlua plugin required for zibo mod, zhsi plugin required for glass (pfd, nd, mfd) screens, FDStoXP plugin required for the hardware/software interface.
Tried going from 4K to 2K, problem isn't frame rates, my rates are locked at 30fps and they don't dip... but I do see flickers.
vsync needs to be on or the stutter / flicker issue gets worse. If I uncheck vsync my frames jump into the mid forties, but the stutters/flickers get worse.

MS2020 - I have to run two computers for the flight deck - One computer runs everything except the two CDU screens, they are on a second computer. 
I run PMDG 737-800 airliner, Device Interface Manager hardware/software interface, glass screens popped out of PMDG. There is more of a demand on this setup and yet it performs so much better.

Seeing how good the PMDG 737 was in comparison to Zibo in XP12 was really a shock to me. And I absolutely love the Zibo in XP11.

But it was almost unbelievable how crisp everything looks, everything works as it should, no jagged shadows, no broken AA, fps are 2-3 times higher and a properly illuminated cockpit.

Of course Zibo is a XP11 product and should be judged as such but as to airliners I'm really not seeing anything in XP12 right now that doesnt look at least 10 years dated. I own the Rotate MD-80 and it's ok and has reasonably sharp cockpit tectures, but nothing groundbreaking either. My glorious FlyJsim 732 is a complete writeoff, and Toliss or IXEG never interested me.

Haven't seen the CL650 yet people say it's awesome so that could be the strongest horse in X-Planes stable right now.

I was once really in love with Zibo XP11 but considering that PMDG runs at 80 fps while lookling and feeling substantially better than XP12 at 30 makes this a no brainer to me. It currently has such performance that it isn't even in the competition.

DCS by the way also runs on Vulcan, has the same high fps and doesnt crash or forget to load textures. So maybe the issue I see is that some parts of X-Plane are programmed well but other parts, are just strange and have the certain DIY touch in places.

But well, I really dont want to step on some peoples feet more than necessary I already fear the refutations coming. If you still love X-Plane that's great but I am now (almost except vskylabs DC-3 and rotate MD-80) completely gone over to DCS and MSFS. The topic was X-Planes market share and I wanted to give some insight how my opinion has changed over the previous 2 years, opinion that is not only coming from the same 10 people.

 

[mSparks 2,086]

1 hour ago, The Seawolf said:

Haven't seen the CL650 yet people say it's awesome so that could be the strongest horse in X-Planes stable right now.

 

[GoranM 3,772]

1 hour ago, The Seawolf said:

Haven't seen the CL650 yet people say it's awesome so that could be the strongest horse in X-Planes stable right now.

I have a funny feeling you're right.

(No bias). 

😁

[blingthinger 649]

7 hours ago, scotchegg said:

Ooooh, saucer of milk, table 3😅

ha...t'was bait, which Mike didn't take. Last time he ranted about his networked performance, the final conclusion was that he can't fully quit XP because Zibo offered a more immersive experience, in large part because of flight model fidelity compared to his own IRL experiences.

 

11 hours ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

stutters/flickers get worse

I witnessed this for the first time recently. My 1200p screen has never had issues.

Loaded the XP12 demo on my brother's 3080ti system because I wanted to see his 4k OLED in action (oh my drool, and even his reaction (who owns the thing) was "ooh cool" after seeing the night lighting in action). Against my best guesses it seemed that running with --zink eliminated the flickering at dusk (at least that's the only time of day I noticed it). Of course that's a gamble with CTDs these days because NV drivers are broken and they are slow to fix it.

I also found that dropping the rendering distance back a notch from highest, brought FPS back into the 30s.

Edited December 30, 2023 by blingthinger

[blingthinger 649]

3 hours ago, The Seawolf said:

DCS by the way also runs on Vulkan, has the same high fps

It does indeed. And one precursor to their multithreading update was implementing a rendergraph. LR put that into XP a few months ago. I imagine we'll see notable FPS improvements in the coming months.

[jarmstro 2,405]

4 hours ago, mSparks said:

scenery also has a habbit of being one of the common culprits. especially ancient plugins loaded from the scenery folder.

other here is 3X monitors at 4K is going to need FSR dialing up to handle the insane number of pixels getting thrown around. wouldnt surprise me is 2020 is turning DLSS on automatically.

Nonsense! How could scenery possibly be a problem in XP. Because there isn't any scenery! (Apologies, couldn't resist.😀)

Edited December 30, 2023 by jarmstro

[mSparks 2,086]

52 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Nonsense! How could scenery possibly be a problem in XP. Because there isn't any scenery! (Apologies, couldn't resist.😀)

I'll put aside the sarcasm because it is a valid question.

mostly because by default there is a lot of numerical geometry in the ground textures, 10s of thousands of technically 3D surfaces each with their own texture. gpu + cpu APIs are pretty slow at this, and havent improved it for some 20 years. the .fac files they use for many of the buildings arent that much better.

faster is ortho - that replaces it with a well defined single object with LOD and one texture. MS does this by default. 

fastest is mesh shaders, which is one of several very sexy technologies that become (more widely) possible as they finish up getting the fundamental tech working they discussed in the dev q&as I posted earlier, while nothing has been officially announced here, I suspect/expect they will. Austin has talked around it a few times, this will probably be part of MSFS2024. Aces of Thunder aleady demod it hiding in the background of their announce trailer

pretty sure XP12 is already using it (or very similar) for the new water stuff that went live with XP12.

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by mSparks