1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

mSparks, If your upgrade of the old, default 744 (which - as a Default - was never held up as a paradigm in any regard)

Its freeware, not exactly hard to see for yourself what's been done.

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

is already modeling similar to below, then surely it'd be garnering a reputation similar to Zibo or other very highly regarded addons like the 650?

There are two big issues waiting on LR updates

https://developer.x-plane.com/x-plane-bug-database/?issue=XPD-13334

https://developer.x-plane.com/x-plane-bug-database/?issue=XPD-14585

One of those is just waiting on a merge, the other is a lot more work,

Others devs have completely redone that themselves, I'm fine with waiting for LR to fix their ####

They don't make it "unflyable", but it does put quite the limits on certain aspects you would expect to "just work".

And anyway, what makes you think its reputation is less?

https://x-plane.to/file/309/zibo-mod-b737-800x

vs

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/67817-sparky-744-default-744-major-overhaul/

I mean sure, there is a lot more flying and aware of the zibo, but that baby is a full grown man now with kids of it's own, very first Sparky release was barely 3 years ago, and considering the words not allowed thresholdx pulled it was pretty much a miracle it made that. Can't say I'm remotely disappointed with it.

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

And if it's so "simple", then why isn't every developer doing it...?

We put the "under the hood" values on their proper EICAS screens, pretty much what you would expect and I don't know of any (x-plane) developer that doesn't.

It never once occurred to me that people would prefer to have them on diagram popouts, It will take a couple of weeks of free evenings, we crossed some 20,000 datarefs last count iirc, sorting through them for the fun ones is going to be harder than sticking them on imgui windows. if someone wants to get started on the diagrams it will come significantly faster.
 

Edited January 5, 20242 yr by mSparks

4 hours ago, mSparks said:

if someone wants to get started on the diagrams it will come significantly faster.

One would first have to invent the universe, i.e. drawing stuff in xlua. I manged to do normal windows with text and primitives (boxes) by using the C interface to interact with the XP SDK (XPLM), but putting images into these windows still eludes me. Even the old widget API doesn't support images AFAIK.

And you're kind of missing the point of these diagrams in the Challenger. They're primarily a sanity check and debugging aid for the devs for stuff that is not drawn on the cockpit displays and secondarily a "nice to have" educational tool for the user. I doubt anybody would miss them if they weren't there.

 

P.S: The 744 would actually profit from a 2D popup window. Think load manager, aircraft configurator and takeoff/landing performance calculator.

6 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

One would first have to invent the universe, i.e. drawing stuff in xlua. I manged to do normal windows with text and primitives (boxes) by using the C interface to interact with the XP SDK (XPLM), but putting images into these windows still eludes me. Even the old widget API doesn't support images AFAIK.

And you're kind of missing the point of these diagrams in the Challenger. They're primarily a sanity check and debugging aid for the devs for stuff that is not drawn on the cockpit displays and secondarily a "nice to have" educational tool for the user. I doubt anybody would miss them if they weren't there.

 

P.S: The 744 would actually profit from a 2D popup window. Think load manager, aircraft configurator and takeoff/landing performance calculator.

Sparker already finished all that 4 years ago

https://github.com/sparker256/imgui4xp

It went in xtlua ~7 months ago

https://github.com/mSparks43/XTLua/tree/master/XTLua/src

Edited January 5, 20242 yr by mSparks

On 1/5/2024 at 7:54 AM, mSparks said:

Its freeware, not exactly hard to see for yourself what's been done.

There are two big issues waiting on LR updates

https://developer.x-plane.com/x-plane-bug-database/?issue=XPD-13334

https://developer.x-plane.com/x-plane-bug-database/?issue=XPD-14585

One of those is just waiting on a merge, the other is a lot more work,

Others devs have completely redone that themselves, I'm fine with waiting for LR to fix their ####

They don't make it "unflyable", but it does put quite the limits on certain aspects you would expect to "just work".

And anyway, what makes you think its reputation is less?

https://x-plane.to/file/309/zibo-mod-b737-800x

vs

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/67817-sparky-744-default-744-major-overhaul/

I mean sure, there is a lot more flying and aware of the zibo, but that baby is a full grown man now with kids of it's own, very first Sparky release was barely 3 years ago, and considering the words not allowed thresholdx pulled it was pretty much a miracle it made that. Can't say I'm remotely disappointed with it.

We put the "under the hood" values on their proper EICAS screens, pretty much what you would expect and I don't know of any (x-plane) developer that doesn't.

It never once occurred to me that people would prefer to have them on diagram popouts, It will take a couple of weeks of free evenings, we crossed some 20,000 datarefs last count iirc, sorting through them for the fun ones is going to be harder than sticking them on imgui windows. if someone wants to get started on the diagrams it will come significantly faster.
 

Why do you constantly Red Herring?

AFAICT, the Sparky 744 is a fine effort & significant upgrade resulting from the efforts of quite a few folks.

But it's quite a leap from there to your claim of superiority to the PMDG 744, no? Are you asserting that a loose confederation of volunteer developers have, in only 3 years, outperformed a highly regarded commercial dev team's efforts delivering multiple Boeing "study level" airliners over the past 20-ish years? Really...?

Your previous distraction arguments imply that, somehow, you've also managed to deliver a peer level product to Zibo, Hot Start, A2A Sims, & AFL and are only missing a few visualization pop up diagrams, while conveniently ignoring ALL the detailed custom system components listed previously.

But I don't see a detailed features list on your mods GitHub that would support your assertions. If you've created custom systems, custom simulated components, custom physics, and all the myriad other features that make the products of A2A Sims, Airfoil Labs, Hot Start, Zibo, PMDG, et al the undisputed cream of the flight sim addon market, PLEASE - start singing it from the rooftops!

Or, you could just accept that there are, in fact, developers who've created incredibly realistic virtual aircraft in flight sims other than X-Plane. AND that the Tier 1 devs in all flight sims don't garner their reputation just by adding a few "simple" baubles like "diagrams and cut-away pictures taken from any old aviation handbooks" over the base simulator's default systems/datarefs/etc.

Edited January 6, 20242 yr by UrgentSiesta
correction

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

But it's quite a leap from there to your claim of superiority to the PMDG 744, no?

What's to leap.

Once you VR you can never go back.

Sparky744 is the only VR friendly 744 - in fact, afaik, its the only VR friendly airliner. most definitely the only VR friendly airliner for us penguins...).

You see those black edges in

They are because

All the complaints you have heard about nausea and sickness in VR are caused by that.

(also, is it really true the PMDG 744 has the wrong MCP?)

As for the rest, when not if.

 

Edited January 6, 20242 yr by mSparks

Never seen someone move the goalposts so far. From systems to VR friendliness as argumentation for the same statement.

why not fly a 747-8 in VR?

 

Edited January 7, 20242 yr by turbomax

1 hour ago, threegreen said:

Never seen someone move the goalposts so far. From systems

the systems in the sparky744 are complete except for the two XP issues I posted earlier

complete list of training videos here

https://github.com/mSparks43/747-400/milestone/4

yes, we moved the goalposts for "better than freeware" a very very long way.

fun and easy thing to do on a friday when the tools are phenominal, work, and highly experienced professionals solved all the hard problems like getting them to fly exactly like the real one based purely on the specs. 

What else you gonna do? kick back and watch the Kardashians maybe?

Edited January 7, 20242 yr by mSparks

21 hours ago, mSparks said:

What's to leap.

Once you VR you can never go back.

Sparky744 is the only VR friendly 744 - in fact, afaik, its the only VR friendly airliner. most definitely the only VR friendly airliner for us penguins...).

You see those black edges in

They are because

All the complaints you have heard about nausea and sickness in VR are caused by that.

(also, is it really true the PMDG 744 has the wrong MCP?)

As for the rest, when not if.

 

So then, VTOL VR is The Best Flight Sim Of Them All...? I mean, it doesn't even have a flat screen option, so...?

VR is a fantastic aid to immersion, but as demonstrated by VTOL VR, it has virtually no correlation to fidelity. In fact, it can be such a PITA that I still frequently fly 2D. And of course, I'm not alone: according to Laminar, only 6.44% have even tried VR, let alone flying it frequently.

I've never heard that PMDGs 744 has the incorrect MCP, and a quick Google doesn't show anything similar. Care to share a source...?

As to progress on Sparky 744 - I'm sure you and your team will take it far. A couple reviews I've watched show it's made great progress already.

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

the systems in the sparky744 are complete except for the two XP issues I posted earlier

So, no ARINC 429 buses or discrete ADCs, etc...?

In fairness to you and other devs, Hot Start takes things "a bit" further than is necessary for High Fidelity desktop simulation. I don't believe I've seen that "excessive" level of modeling in other "study level" addons (even PMDG, afaict).

Quote

getting them to fly exactly like the real one based purely on the specs. 

The reviews I watched, while noting significant progress, still indicate further refinement is needed. E.g., the universally dreaded VNAV, auto ILS & auto land, and perhaps drag values, etc.

Quote

yes, we moved the goalposts for "better than freeware default" a very very long way.

No question on that at all - and thanks to you and your team!

50 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

I'm sure you and your team will take it far.

well, running out of things to do, LR made a new fuselage, thats in the oven with people who are, unlike me, actually artisistc. 

you spoke earlier about "loose confederation" but the whole linux background has that nailed down. issue system is open for anyone to submit/comment/discuss through github.

Anyone who wants to play aircraft engineer makes a fork, fixes [and/or breaks] what they want, then submits those changes for inclusion.

That "loose confederation" consists of 100 different people, each with their own fork.

Discord for helping each other.

50 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

VTOL VR

the fundamental problem for airliners in VR is their systems are insanely complex. Were you around for the big MSFS fights when we talked about it? 

There are 10,000 pages plus of documentation detailing how stuff works and is wired up.

The "overview" type rating video is 7 and a half hours long

pulling all that together and hitting 120fps mins needed for VR not just moved goalposts, it moved stuff into a whole different league. 

wasm for msfs is still single threaded last time I checked. xbox doesnt even support VR for anything, let alone any of the airliners.

net outcome, people stopped paying $XX per month for the 744 on P3D, and came to xplane 12 (and 11).

i suspect they didnt go to msfs, mostly because

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/boeing-747-400-for-msfs/614259

 

Edited January 7, 20242 yr by mSparks

Not even a hint of the thread topic left in this discussion...