Here are the results of the last navigraph-survey:

https://download.navigraph.com/docs/flightsim-community-survey-by-navigraph-2023-final.pdf

This isn‘t really a big surprise, since we saw quite a lot of users switching to XP this year.

There are now 76% of people who used XP 11/12 at least once (compared to 64% last year).

If we count only the users using XP as their main sim, the numbers have increased from 16% to 20%.

This great results have been achieved despite the fact that the participation to the survey hadn‘t been published on the org-site, that may have lead to many XP users having missed it.

This shows that XP12 did a fantastic job after Laminar already announced that it had the best start ever in the history of Laminar (most sold copies of any new releases).

Great times to be flightsimmer. And with the presentation of the weather-radar in developpment by Laminar and the soon-to-come FF777v2 that looks very promising, there are great news coming soon to the XP-world. 

Edited December 22, 20232 yr by Franz007

5 hours ago, Franz007 said:

There are now 76% of people who used XP 11/12 at least once (compared to 64% last year).

There will be some who find that surprising.  Including myself.  A greater than 10% increase is very impressive.  And that's only survey numbers.  I started taking the survey, but lost interest after having to manually type in responses.  So the number could very easily be higher.

It's obvious X-Plane is here to stay, and won't be going anywhere.

5 hours ago, Franz007 said:

If we count only the users using XP as their main sim, the numbers have increased from 16% to 20%.

Even more impressive.  It puts to rest a few conspiracy theories about people dumping X-Plane for other platforms.  (Final nail in the coffin, etc...)

5 hours ago, Franz007 said:

This shows that XP12 did a fantastic job after Laminar already announced that it had the best start ever in the history of Laminar (most sold copies of any new releases).

And they're not even done with the juicy stuff yet.

 

Hi,

I didn't get the take that this survey was good for X-Plane, not at all. Seven minutes into the video MSFS at over 70% with XP getting 13%, that's not good! Third party programmers will go where the crowd gathers. 

 

Edited December 23, 20232 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

13 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Hi,

I didn't get the take that this survey was good for X-Plane, not at all. Seven minutes into the video MSFS at over 70% with XP getting 13%, that's not good! Third party programmers will go where the crowd gathers. 

Yes, this is my interpretation too.

30 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Third party programmers will go where the crowd gathers.

That's one of the common 'nails' in XP's 'coffin' trumpeted by the hot-air-doom'sday-prophets. The trajectory probably isn't what many thought it might be in 11's days of domination, but LR wouldn't be actively hiring more people (e.g. Biology) if it was a crash and burn situation.

Plus this survey is very clearly hot garbage for general stats. The top GPU in the hobby is a 4090?? Riiiight....

Edited December 23, 20232 yr by blingthinger

3 hours ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Hi,

I didn't get the take that this survey was good for X-Plane, not at all. Seven minutes into the video MSFS at over 70% with XP getting 13%, that's not good! Third party programmers will go where the crowd gathers. 

 

My add on sales figures disagree with you. But you’re entitled to your own opinion.  If 70% represents 10 million downloads, then I’m more than comfortable with X-Plane sitting at 13%. Manageable support while making a great living.  Obviously the survey wasn’t taken by 10 million people, but I’m still more than happy with the percentages and my bottom line. 
I’ve been reading the same “3rd party developers will go where the money is” for about 3 years. And in those 3 years, only one has gone.  And more power to them.  I’ve made a wonderful living out of X-Plane add ons since 2009. And from the discussions I’ve had with other developers, along with “Biology” getting hired by Laminar to work on future development of X-Plane, it’s a very bright future for X-Plane, indeed. 

Edited December 23, 20232 yr by GoranM

2 hours ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Hi,

I didn't get the take that this survey was good for X-Plane, not at all. Seven minutes into the video MSFS at over 70% with XP getting 13%, that's not good! Third party programmers will go where the crowd gathers. 
 

X-Plane has always been the underdog in terms of player base.

If devs only followed the money, XP would've trailed off years ago - before v2020 was even out.

What we see, instead, is very few devs leaving XP for MSFS. The growth in devs has largely come from net new shops. And arguably, many of the legacy ESP devs are having their lunch handed to them by the new kids on the block.

While MSFS has obliterated P3D & FSX sales for all devs, we see that XPs userbase is growing - and substantially at that. So while MSFS is the undisputed sales champ, those numbers are - also - coming from net new flight simmers.

XP is growing, and continues to improve at breakneck speed.

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

My add on sales figures disagree with you. But you’re entitled to your own opinion.  If 70% represents 10 million downloads, then I’m more than comfortable with X-Plane sitting at 13%. Manageable support while making a great living.  Obviously the survey wasn’t taken by 10 million people, but I’m still more than happy with the percentages and my bottom line. 
I’ve been reading the same “3rd party developers will go where the money is” for about 3 years. And in those 3 years, only one has gone.  And more power to them.  I’ve made a wonderful living out of X-Plane add ons since 2009. And from the discussions I’ve had with other developers, along with “Biology” getting hired by Laminar to work on future development of X-Plane, it’s a very bright future for X-Plane, indeed. 

That's fantastic news - congrats!

Just to be accurate, tho, more than a few devs have gone, or gone primarily MSFS: iniB, Flying Iron, CowanSim, Carenado, India Foxt Echo, right off the top of my head.

Just Flight has been openly bemoaning their extremely poor XP sales, with exceedingly slow progress and many hints that XP might be a legacy line for them at best. though there is a bit of recent news bringing some hope...

Let's also not forget that the scenery dev scene for XP has become rather barren, as well, with many devs such as Orbx radically reducing their new products AND upgrades for XP.

And still MANY XP 11 aircraft & addons have yet to even be upgraded for v12 (including one of the very best turboprops - hint, hint...!!).

Finally, there are very few new devs for XP, and I can't think of even one that's gone dual-platform, or migrated to XP from MSFS.

In any case, this isn't meant to predict doom and gloom for X-Plane, as it's market share is clearly growing as v12 is improving. Rather that we should keep the rose tinted glasses off our faces.

3 hours ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Seven minutes into the video MSFS at over 70% with XP getting 13%, that's not good! Third party programmers will go where the crowd gathers. 

XP12 alone is 13%. Many still use XP11. The point is that in a market supposed to be entirely dominated by one player this never happened (unfortunately for their fans) and XP could even increase quite significantly its numbers of users and reach 20%. That‘s really great numbers. I am very very happy and impressed with Laminar’s succss so far.

33 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

XP12 alone is 13%. Many still use XP11. The point is that in a market supposed to be entirely dominated by one player this never happened (unfortunately for their fans) and XP could even increase quite significantly its numbers of users and reach 20%. That‘s really great numbers. I am very very happy and impressed with Laminar’s succss so far.

Agree.

Especially relative to what happened to the former heavyweight champ, Prepar3D...

13 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Just to be accurate, tho, more than a few devs have gone, or gone primarily MSFS: iniB, Flying Iron, CowanSim, Carenado, India Foxt Echo, right off the top of my head.

No offense to those guys, but with the exception of Carenado and ini, I've never heard of any of them.  I MAY have heard of India Foxtrot Echo.  Didn't they do FSX scenery conversions?  Scenery is a very niche area to get into when it comes to flight sims.  To the point that OrbX is about the only team that can do it and make some kind of a profit out of it.

Carenado were originally in MSFS.  They contracted Thranda to do their conversions.  They just went back to what they know.  Which makes complete sense.  

Thranda are staying with X-Plane.

In saying all that, there are about 200+ dev teams for X-Plane.  If that's all that has made the move in the last 3 years, it's safe to say the established developers are staying with X-Plane.  

16 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Just Flight has been openly bemoaning their extremely poor XP sales, with exceedingly slow progress and many hints that XP might be a legacy line for them at best. though there is a bit of recent news bringing some hope...

They're another group who contracted Thranda.  It's very difficult to split the grosses with so many developers.  Especially with GA's.  Personally, I wouldn't be too happy with someone doing conversions for my stuff in MSFS.  I like to have the final say.  That way, all the blame is on me.  

19 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Let's also not forget that the scenery dev scene for XP has become rather barren, as well, with many devs such as Orbx radically reducing their new products AND upgrades for XP.

With the scenery gateway, and auto ortho, it's extremely difficult for any scenery devs to turn a substantial, if any profit.  I really don't blame OrbX for scaling back on X-Plane scenery.  If profits take a dive, for whatever reason, they need to take steps.  But again, they also started with MSFS back in the FS9 days.  I'm very happy they're still making sceneries for X-Plane.  Even though they scaled back.

21 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

And still MANY XP 11 aircraft & addons have yet to even be upgraded for v12

Laminar are making a lot of changes to the engine model.  There are further engine changes coming in the next few updates, and everyone is just holding off before they push any new updates.  It's a little annoying, but in the long run, it's good for everyone.  Saso, and the TBM...that's another story.  The man is a man of perfection.  And he's constantly working on the TBM to make it all that much better.  Not many people I look up to.  But he's one of them.  One of the very few developers I trust, implicitly, to do a thorough job of any coding for an add on.  

22 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

(including one of the very best turboprops - hint, hint...!!).

I like the way you think.  😁

It's being worked on.  Actually, more than people realize.  Saso is going above and beyond a mere compatibility update.  I don't want to say too much, but it will definitely be worth the wait.  I've also done quite a lot of work on the art assets.  But I do like surprising people.  My work may not make it in the 1st re-release, but it will definitely be in any follow up updates.  

Patience.  It's a virtue.

25 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Finally, there are very few new devs for XP, and I can't think of even one that's gone dual-platform, or migrated to XP from MSFS.

Agreed.

26 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

In any case, this isn't meant to predict doom and gloom for X-Plane, as it's market share is clearly growing as v12 is improving. Rather that we should keep the rose tinted glasses off our faces.

Absolutely.  As you said, X-Plane has been the underdog ever since its inception.  I started with X-Plane 7, and seen the add on market go from only freeware, to a healthy payware market.  In that entire time, Laminar have consistently remained on the plus side of the profit picture.  

Making add ons has provided a life for me that I never thought possible.  The biggest gift was being able to work from home, and watch my daughter grow up.  She was 3 when I started making add ons.  Not many parents can say that, and I am blessed to be one of the few.

9 minutes ago, GoranM said:

No offense to those guys, but with the exception of Carenado and ini, I've never heard of any of them.  I MAY have heard of India Foxtrot Echo.  Didn't they do FSX scenery conversions?  Scenery is a very niche area to get into when it comes to flight sims.  To the point that OrbX is about the only team that can do it and make some kind of a profit out of it.

--snip--

I like the way you think.  😁

It's being worked on.  Actually, more than people realize.  Saso is going above and beyond a mere compatibility update.  I don't want to say too much, but it will definitely be worth the wait.  I've also done quite a lot of work on the art assets.  But I do like surprising people.  My work may not make it in the 1st re-release, but it will definitely be in any follow up updates.  

--snip--

Absolutely.  As you said, X-Plane has been the underdog ever since its inception.  I started with X-Plane 7, and seen the add on market go from only freeware, to a healthy payware market.  In that entire time, Laminar have consistently remained on the plus side of the profit picture.  

Making add ons has provided a life for me that I never thought possible.  The biggest gift was being able to work from home, and watch my daughter grow up.  She was 3 when I started making add ons.  Not many parents can say that, and I am blessed to be one of the few.

Agreed on all points in your response 🙂

Especially the last one - been working from home since the pandemic and it's been an incredible boon to Quality of Life for my family

Very much looking forward to flying the TBM again - it's my "Goldilocks" aircraft 😉

 

Edited December 23, 20232 yr by UrgentSiesta

28 minutes ago, GoranM said:

India Foxtrot Echo

This guy did freeware for FSX, than started pay ware, created one plane for xplane as a dabble into it, than made it freeware and went to the easier side, As pay ware, he would not be far of Thandra quailty. He is really good.

Interesting that gaming went up 7%, wonder why.

Edited December 23, 20232 yr by mjrhealth

@GoranM

Thanks for these insights 😊 You and Saso are the perfect example showing that XP may not aim for a mass-product but for quality and excellence, even if it takes a bit more time to develop. As you said, i am sure that it is well worth the wait. Quality over quantity is the way to go.

2 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

... those numbers are - also - coming from net new flight simmers.

I remember that in the 2010's and also earlier, when there were polls in the flight sim fora about the age of the simmers, the average age was around 50 years (or even older). When I see what we have nowadays (page 14 of the survey) ...

If I read that correctly in the current survey, 5% are between 10 and 15 years old, 12% between 15 and 20, 9% between 20 and 25 - and so on. So, I would call that young crowd "gamers" which came to flight simming during the last years. And the question is, how serious they are taking that. I assume, not very much ...