48 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

I've now seen numerous "new" products being released into the market for XP that are on sale already. Why? Holiday season discounts, maybe or is it that no one is buying them? 

I guess it depends on the product being sold, and the reason.  I have MSFS, and I see discounts in the market place almost every month.  Sometimes more than once a month.  I can make the same argument for cheaper prices altogether.  Why is everything so much cheaper in the marketplace?

The opinion will be very heavily divided.  Some will say the sales volume is huge, and developers can afford to price their products cheaper.  Others will say they're forced to price them cheaper because of the flight sim market.

In any business, a developer, salesman, businessman NEVER sells his/her product for less than he/she thinks it's worth.  Example:  MacBook Pro's are the most expensive laptops on the planet.  Apple will never price them less than what they think they're worth.  No matter the sales volume.  

48 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

I noticed on the org site itself over 50% of the new items listed are being slashed in price.

No one knows the marketing strategies employed by them.  Maybe sales are lower than expected.  Maybe they want to get more people interested in flight simming.  Even I can't have a definite opinion on that.

48 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

what other 3rd party addons recently released give one that WOW I need to buy this right now feeling.

I've only seen this once as a consumer.  And that was the PMDG 747 for FS9.  Robert Randazzo is a helluva salesman.  And he marketed that aircraft with nothing but utter genius.  I have countless add ons, and they were all purchased as part of a hobby.  Not as part of something like "WOW, I need this in my life!"

48 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Wonder how many others are just like me and not purchasing anything?

Interesting you say that.  With that one statement, you are basically setting yourself as the standard.  If you're not purchasing anything, then the market must be failing.  It may not be intended to come across that way, but it is.  What about others who still purchase add ons for X-Plane 12?  Are there many of those?  You simply have a different opinion to others.

Without giving away too much, and at the risk of coming across as bragging, the CL650 has seen a steady and stable income stream for almost 2 years.  I could get rid of all my other add ons, and still make a comfortable living just off the CL.

Discounts happen.  If they're happening due to declining sales, then it's an obvious sales strategy to get people to buy.  The add on market isn't the first to employ this strategy, and it certainly won't be the last.  I'm a big fan of an electronics store called JB Hi Fi.  They have sales almost every week.  It doesn't mean their business is failing.  They've been around for many years.

Whatever gets people in the door, a business will do it.  Even if that means razor thin profit margins.  

6 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

If this is the case then why isn't 2020 having sales issues to the point of slashing prices

I can answer this one.  Constantly lower prices to get people to keep buying.  Even with that said, I still see regular sales in the market place on some products.

 

Edit:

Just to add one more thing.  The add on market is far smaller than most, if not all people think.  A successful add on for any sim would be approximately 5000 sales or more within the first year.  Sales after that taper off, so a living can still be made.  

I know, I know, the Antonov reportedly sold over 1 million units.  For $20, even I'd buy it.  Especially if it went to charity.  And I'm not much of a non commercial aircraft fan.  

The record held is 90 000 sales for an add on, and that was for a 3 year period.

Edited December 24, 20232 yr by GoranM

25 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

If this is the case then why isn't 2020 having sales issues to the point of slashing prices, simmarket has nowhere near the items listed slashed as found on the org?

Could simply be the age of users. I suppose if we compared the number of young people who use xplane compared to MSFS, I suspect xplane would have an older user group, simply because xplane isnt on xbox. And people who are doing the earning are far less likely to just spend there money, than kids with there pocket money and birthday presents.

Xplane isnt going away, Wheter some like it or not.

1 hour ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

If this is the case then why isn't 2020 having sales issues to the point of slashing prices, simmarket has nowhere near the items listed slashed as found on the org?

I stopped using MSFS but i remember having seen tons and tons of discounted stuff for it. The marketplace was full of it. And I realized that it must be difficult for devs there because some airports ended up being made by 4 or 5 developpers (for the same airport). Perhaps this has changed but I am not convinced at all that MSFS is that much of a gold-mine for most of devs. It is for sure for the exclusive stuff like PMDG, Fenix or some that have great reputation like iniBuild. That‘s about it.

7 hours ago, Franz007 said:

And I realized that it must be difficult for devs there because some airports ended up being made by 4 or 5 developpers (for the same airport)

Yep, this is what I noticed in the store, e.g recently Inibuilds announcing Leeds-Bradford airport when there is also a version by Orbx, and there are numerous other examples. If people already own an airport, why would they buy it again unless there was something really wrong with the old version or it was really out of date?. In addition, there is some very high quality freeware also competing with payware (and sometimes it's even better). I'm not convinced the scenery market is the goldmine it once was in MFS (Although I don't think it ever was a goldmine). People now want interiors modelling, animated people etc, but the prices remain the same :/

11 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

Could simply be the age of users. I suppose if we compared the number of young people who use xplane compared to MSFS, I suspect xplane would have an older user group, simply because xplane isnt on xbox. And people who are doing the earning are far less likely to just spend there money, than kids with there pocket money and birthday presents.

Xplane isnt going away, Wheter some like it or not.

Hi,

If that's the case, then it means that household income is not the issue why XP12 sales are down. If the young people of today are getting hooked on 2020 and soon to be released 2024, I cannot see them jumping ship for XP13 in the future, not when they have become accustomed to photogrammetry!

I agree )"and I never said they would be going out of business") X-Plane just like P3D isn't going anywhere, but development from the outside world is slowing while development for 2020 is on the rise.

Edited December 24, 20232 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

1 hour ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

X-Plane just like P3D isn't going anywhere, but development from the outside world is slowing while development for 2020 is on the rise.

There is a thing called market saturation, when you have too many sellers and not enough buyers. MS is easy, competition is high, developers have to decide how much effort they need to put in against return. The more developers the harder the sell. I suspect soon some may head to xplane to get away from that. Less competition here.

6 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

There is a thing called market saturation, when you have too many sellers and not enough buyers. MS is easy, competition is high, developers have to decide how much effort they need to put in against return. The more developers the harder the sell. I suspect soon some may head to xplane to get away from that. Less competition here.

Harder to sell, not necessarily true for the established developers, new comers to the market this will more than likely be the case. I believe some developers that fall to the wayside on the 2020 side of things may fall back to XP, although I think some may look to join other more successful 2020 developers or even get taken up by the base platform designers themselves before moving over.

Those that aren't successful in 2020 with products that are easy to port over may become a reality in XP. But for now, I think we're in for a bit of a dry spell.

58 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

There is a thing called market saturation, when you have too many sellers and not enough buyers. MS is easy, competition is high, developers have to decide how much effort they need to put in against return. The more developers the harder the sell. I suspect soon some may head to xplane to get away from that. Less competition here.

Exactly my thoughts. Imagine you are looking for a nice little rural airfield to purchase in Washington State, and upon opening the store are met with a plethora of airfields from various developers (some old-timers and various new developers, with various ratings 4-5 stars), a few have even created the same airport. Not only that, there are also free versions of the same airports on sites such as flightsim.to. This is market saturation, despite the fact that MFS has more customers, there is also way more choice, meaning unless developers are really spending effort on marketing their products, it's harder to get the sales, especially if the developer isn't a well-known one. Competition is good for the consumer, with developers trying to make their products stand out (interiors, animated people, etc), but it also costs way more to make.

I have.. in my own experience, abandoned a MFS project I was developing because someone simply beat me to it and made a decent freeware version. It would not have been profitable trying to finish it with the demands of payware these days, and I accept I was too slow.  Just because there are more potential customers does not always mean guaranteed more sales, especially if there is a lot of choice for the customers.

I do believe that if someone really made a high-quality product for X-Plane (Aircraft or Scenery), they'd do well from it, but it would have to target a niche that people really want (MisterX comes to mind with his plans), or high-quality aircraft such as the TBM-900.

 

On 12/23/2023 at 4:30 AM, tonywob said:

There is no denying that a lot of devs have simply moved to MFS. X-Plane is crying out for quality developers, but many are clearly going to where the users are (Especially with scenery dev)

I think two items killed this area for XPlane, first Laminar's Gateway for quality improvements to XP right out of the box. Second is SimHanven's X-world or AutoAutho. So I don't think many scenery developers will be back. Hope I'm wrong.

1 hour ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

I think two items killed this area for XPlane, first Laminar's Gateway for quality improvements to XP right out of the box. Second is SimHanven's X-world or AutoAutho. So I don't think many scenery developers will be back. Hope I'm wrong.

I promise you, everything you are saying has been said, by many people, with every new version of MSFS. P3D was another one where everyone who bought it thought it would be the sim to take down X-Plane.  Funded by Lockheed Martin, they were all convinced that X-Plane didn’t stand a chance. 
We’ve seen it all before. And X-Plane has come out of it, just fine.  Even Austin’s friends told him he’s crazy to compete against Microsoft when he started selling the first commercial version of X-Plane, 25 years ago. 

Edited December 24, 20232 yr by GoranM

17 hours ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

If this is the case then why isn't 2020 having sales issues to the point of slashing prices, simmarket has nowhere near the items listed slashed as found on the org? One would think if it's household cash in short supple the cause would effect all sim platforms.

Not disagreeing with you overall. 

What I observe, however, is that xplane add-ons haven't brought down their prices to similar levels as MSFS. 

Eg the prices of hi fi Airbus in each sim, or even just comparing Orbx prices for the same airports. 

Arguably xplane products need deeper discounts, etc. 

And though I can't be sure of degree, I've seen quite a few comments from MSFS players remarking on the premium of xp add-ons. 

It would seem reasonable for the xp addon devs to at least experiment with similar MSRP and see if they can make up in volume what they give up in unit margin. 

And at least for me, who buys add-ons across several sims, yes, the xp premium has kept me from purchasing when I can find similar fidelity add-ons in MSFS for less. 

18 hours ago, GoranM said:

Without giving away too much, and at the risk of coming across as bragging, the CL650 has seen a steady and stable income stream for almost 2 years.  I could get rid of all my other add ons, and still make a comfortable living just off the CL.

I'm honestly happy to hear that. 

While I appreciate an interesting "high value" addon as much as the next guy, I've generally found myself more satisfied with HIGH fidelity add-ons, even when they're priced accordingly. 

Now hurry up with those upgrades so I can give you guys more money  😂

 

PS: I realize that may seem to directly contradict my post above, but rest assured I'm talking about Apples to Apples comparisons 😂

Edited December 25, 20232 yr by UrgentSiesta
Clarification.

6 hours ago, GoranM said:

I promise you, everything you are saying has been said, by many people, with every new version of MSFS. P3D was another one where everyone who bought it thought it would be the sim to take down X-Plane.  Funded by Lockheed Martin, they were all convinced that X-Plane didn’t stand a chance. 
We’ve seen it all before. And X-Plane has come out of it, just fine.  Even Austin’s friends told him he’s crazy to compete against Microsoft when he started selling the first commercial version of X-Plane, 25 years ago. 

When did I say/type out Xplane is being taken down and/or going out of business by MS2020 or any other sim for that matter? Answer is never!  Worse case scenario for Austin and X-Plane if things get real bad, he goes back to being a one man show as when he first started! If the same holds true for the other platforms, they would be gone long before XP.

Still doesn't change the fact that 3RD party programmers are leaving XP12 for MS2020. It's not L/R that's leaving, it's the third party programmers that are leaving.

I consider ORBX to be one of the top developers that have an established history. If you look at their sales page you'll find less than 20 items for sale for XP12. Look at the MS2020 pages and you'll get the picture. If all that is available for 2020 then they are not developing for XP and that's not good.

Edited December 25, 20232 yr by Mike_CFII_MEL

1 hour ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

When did I say/type out Xplane is being taken down and/or going out of business by MS2020 or any other sim for that matter? Answer is never!

I never said you did.  I said people, in general, said it.  I was making a point by going to an extreme.

1 hour ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Worse case scenario for Austin and X-Plane if things get real bad, he goes back to being a one man show as when he first started! If the same holds true for the other platforms, they would be gone long before XP.

Sure.  And worst case scenario for MSFS is Asobo gets shut down by Microsoft.  The only difference is, Microsoft has shut down MSFS before.  Twice.  After FSX, when they fired the entire ACES staff (275 of them) and after MS Flight.  With X-Plane, Austin doesn't have shareholders or a board of directors to answer to.  Regardless of all that, X-Plane has seen a constant positive growth over the last 25 years.  Of course, there are people who constantly say X-Plane is failing due to what they see on Steam sales.  Truth is, no one knows X-Planes true total sales, because Austin doesn't disclose those figures, anywhere.  The general trend is Steam represents a very small percentage of total sales.  This is not my opinion.  This is fact based on what I, and other developers know.

1 hour ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Still doesn't change the fact that 3RD party programmers are leaving XP12 for MS2020.

We're going around in circles with this comment. Insisting it as fact doesn't make it factual.  Going by a previous post, a small handful of dedicated X-Plane devs, numbering less than 5, have left (I don't count Just Flight and Carenado, because they never made anything for X-Plane.  An X-Plane dev team did their conversions), and I don't even know how established they were in X-Plane or how established they are now in MSFS.  

1 hour ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

I consider ORBX to be one of the top developers that have an established history.

Another dev team that started with MSFS, and know it inside out.  They expanded to X-Plane some time late last decade, after initial friction between John Venema and Austin (which was made public several years ago.)

With the scenery gateway, and auto ortho, the scenery market will dry up very quickly.  As it would with MSFS if they introduce a scenery gateway to go with AI powered streaming photogrammetry.  

1 hour ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

If all that is available for 2020 then they are not developing for XP and that's not good.

For scenery...sure.  Aircraft are a completely different area.  

You're entitled to your opinion.  But you will get people challenging your opinion.

3 hours ago, GoranM said:

(I don't count Just Flight

Well they are supposed to be working with Thandra so they are back, already updated a few planes to 12.But we are not priority.