2 hours ago, Lord Farringdon said:

It's worth a viewing

...on how NOT to fly safely.

100 callout on the RA, performs a non-standard procedure and receives a sink rate alert while still banking for short final.

It's a cool looking video and PIC is apparently highly experienced, but (call me a grinch if you want) I would not want to be on-board in that situation.

Edited June 22, 20241 yr by F737MAX
Context of approach provided below which changes everything

33 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

...on how NOT to fly safely.

100 callout on the RA, performs a non-standard procedure and receives a sink rate alert while still banking for short final.

It's a cool looking video and PIC is apparently highly experienced, but (call me a grinch if you want) I would not want to be on-board in that situation.

It's apparently the standard missed approach procedure for that runway since behind it is (or was at the time) an actual warzone. So it's deemed safer to do a low 360 like that staying low over the water than flying out high and beyond the runway and potentially getting shot at from the ground.

16 hours ago, mspencer said:

Trust me, I agree, I'm a bit peeved.

I believe them when they say this is a different development team, but in the EJet dev update yesterday, they basically put the cFMS/VNAV on indefinite hold blaming a bunch of different factors including FS24, and made some statements about how it's hard and it's basically not in the sim yet.

I saw this coming 6 months ago when they declared the FMS was "basically complete on paper," just doesn't fill me with confidence that they know what they're doing.

 

Just now, threexgreen said:

It's apparently the standard missed approach procedure for that runway since behind it is (or was at the time) an actual warzone.

Ah, more than fair enough, then

Thanks for providing this info.

3 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

Ah, more than fair enough, then

Thanks for providing this info.

I actually posted this video here some years ago myself because I wasn't sure what the hell I was watching until it became clear that it's a wild region to fly in requiring freak maneuvers and procedures at times to avoid being blasted out of the sky by militias.

1 hour ago, threexgreen said:

I actually posted this video here some years ago myself because I wasn't sure what the hell I was watching until it became clear that it's a wild region to fly in requiring freak maneuvers and procedures at times to avoid being blasted out of the sky by militias.

Yes Indeed. The captain has a bit of interesting history and not all of it that good but then he seems to be just the sort of guy you need in these situations. As you say, the problem with MOG was that there were militia's with portable SAM's in close proximity to the airport. While those militias could easily monitor arrivals it wasn't that they were shooting everything down but rather the threat that if something didn't or wasn't going their way, they could. It's not an unusual experience in Africa. Peacekeeping operations and even internal politics can lead to aircraft shoots downs. Wiki Air Rhodesia Flight 825 for further info but after that tragedy  and " Following a second shootdown, Air Rhodesia created a system whereby the underside of the Viscounts would be coated with low-radiation paint, with the exhaust pipes concurrently shrouded. According to tests conducted by the Air Force, a Viscount so treated could not be detected by the Strela's targeting system once it was over 2,000 feet (610 m). There were no further Viscount shootdowns in Rhodesia".

Anyway, it was not so much about the dangers of some types of flying in Africa, and in this case Mogadishu, but rather that given those dangers the video shows the type of skills necessary in both flying, situation awareness and energy management associated with breaking off the approach into a 360 degree low level orbit and rolling wings level almost on centreline. When we get our hands on B727 I'm sure a few of us will want to try this at different landing weights with the aim being to keep our feet dry.      

Cheers

Terry

8 hours ago, Lord Farringdon said:

Well any 727 is better than no 727 at the moment. I'm not sure what anyone will have to say after FSEXPO where FSReborn/SWS said they would answer questions and show images on the state of play of their fleets including their upcoming B727. However my enquiries on Discord suggest such progress reports are unlikely to be published publicly until there is more worthwhile progress to highlight. That was my interpretation anyway and it is understandable. But, it just means the release of their rendition, I fear may still be some way off. So, seeing a B727 on the hard stand next month is going to be a dream come true.

I am not sure of the fidelity but their announcement seems to hold out some hope that major systems will be modelled realistically . Various forms of nav systems exist and it looks like just INS and VOR is also an option. But I guess a magenta line and ease of flying is the key to attracting people to this type of aircraft so the later -200 and the even later Advanced version offers some sort of realism in this case but clearly the -100 was just going to be steam gauges mostly. That's the shame of it really that we can get any amount of old historic aircraft from Asobo without any glass but we cant get a classis steam gauge B727. TBF, it's all about sales to younger generation of budding aviation enthusiasts for whom the magenta line is all they're familiar with.  But look at my avatar. That 100 is the real show. It has the golden ratio that the pencil thin -200 just doesn't have.

No sense in moaning though,  especially since I eagerly look forward to both these developers creations. Especially FSS's cargo version. Isn't it ironic that just when probably the worlds best modelled simulator aircraft is released by PMDG, a number of us are resigned to wait for the B777 Freighter version which will probably be months away. With money now burning a whole in our pockets we are suddenly inundated with a B727 freighter and MD-11 freighter to get us through these hard times.  I just love these three holers!  

The B727 has a lot of history and I wont repeat it because I have  mentioned it all in other posts except to say it is a shame to hear that Jeffrey Epstein's 'Lolita Express,' is to be scrapped.  Apparently, "The infamous private jet used to transport VIP associates, will be scrapped by World Aviation Services. The Boeing 727, which has been grounded since 2016, has no buyers due to its connection to Epstein's sex trafficking empire." Seems the aircraft itself has now also become a victim of this sordid episode.  

Finally, I have linked this before so apologies to those eye rolling me,  but for those new to the B727 or thinking about some real hands on freight flying with FSS's B727, you will not fail to get some inspiration from this Mogidishu approach. It's worth a view

My father, an airline Captain and USN aviator said the 727-100 was his favorite 'liner of all time.

I'm not stoked to see the FSS name associated with the 727 in MSFS, but i'll keep an open (and hopeful) mind.

If it's not fantastic, I'll continue with FlyJSim's excellent rendition in X-Plane.

On 6/22/2024 at 10:26 AM, UrgentSiesta said:

My father, an airline Captain and USN aviator said the 727-100 was his favorite 'liner of all time.

I'm not stoked to see the FSS name associated with the 727 in MSFS, but i'll keep an open (and hopeful) mind.

If it's not fantastic, I'll continue with FlyJSim's excellent rendition in X-Plane.

I've got to give them some credit, they produce pretty airplanes, and I can't fault many of the systems in the EJet that are not related to the navigation.

From day 1, the issues with their implementation of the avionics were clear even in the trailer. When they launched it with no LNAV/VNAV code, looking at their only aircraft at that time, the Sea Rey, produced with default avionics, and no track record in P3D or XP, it was clear that this was going to be a huge stumbling block for them.

They would've been better off not to touch the EJet and focus on their Tecnams and now 727, because a lot of their work is solid. I don't think they knew what they were getting themselves into developing such complex avionics, I imagine they just saw the money.

 

As a result, I'm cautiously optimistic on the 727. They don't have to code complex avionics, and they've shown an ability to develop other systems to some extent.

I think a steam gauge 727 would be a lot of fun, or an old 747-100 or -200 with their steam gauge, no-magenta-line RNAV. But I wonder about flight engineer implementation. Obviously(?) for maximum fun you'd want to be able to manipulate all the switches at the FE station, but it would be a handful to try to do it all in typical single-pilot flight sim operations. I guess any good developer would also come up with an AI flight engineer. That would make it more fun, but might be too much for a developer who wasn't used to making complicated aircraft. 

I know PMDG outfitted their DC-6 with an automated flight engineer... I don't have that aircraft so I don't know how successful their implementation was.

I'm fascinated by how close to release it is. End of july is what - 4 and a bit weeks away? Apparently it's been in development for quite a bit.

And there's just been no noise or anything about it. No previews, nothing. Don't get me wrong I think they did a fantastic job with the EJets - currently my favourites in fact, and I like their tecnams.
Also a big fan of the 727 - so I'm stoked for this one.

Just weird that it's coming out of nowhere.

I own the 170 and 175 by them. It needs to be finished. I have an idea… they released a couple of things only. They are still building their name. How about the 727 team just helps finish the Embraers first, so there are more resources on that. And THEN do the 727. All these new cats… I remember when Bandeirante by NextGen came out in 2021 or whenever… it’s STILL far from great compared to other aircraft. And they immediately announced the E-Jets, the Saabs, and god knows what else… Bow about a realistic assessment of what you can deliver? Cause they haven’t delivered a word not allowed thing since.

BlueBird is irking me with their 787 announcement. “Our 787 will come after the 767, which will come after the 757, which still will be a while before it’s ready!” Hey, BlackBlueBirdBox peeps, how about ONE complex plane at a time. Deliver something first before announcing you will do the universe. 

I doubt I will invest into another “pay now, we will eventually deliver” thing again. Who knows when my Embraers will get to the level they promised. Not particularly amused.

Rant over. 

15 hours ago, mspencer said:

I've got to give them some credit, they produce pretty airplanes, and I can't fault many of the systems in the EJet that are not related to the navigation.

From day 1, the issues with their implementation of the avionics were clear even in the trailer. When they launched it with no LNAV/VNAV code, looking at their only aircraft at that time, the Sea Rey, produced with default avionics, and no track record in P3D or XP, it was clear that this was going to be a huge stumbling block for them.

They would've been better off not to touch the EJet and focus on their Tecnams and now 727, because a lot of their work is solid. I don't think they knew what they were getting themselves into developing such complex avionics, I imagine they just saw the money.

As a result, I'm cautiously optimistic on the 727. They don't have to code complex avionics, and they've shown an ability to develop other systems to some extent.

I appreciate those insights and I can definitely agree with your assessment!

All I had heard about was the poor state of the avionics, etc., and in a modern airliner addon that's basically the kiss of death...

Many times I get tired of hearing all the complaints about VNAV (and even LNAV), mainly because I can't get past the irony of complaining about watching a computer run on your computer... 😉

And somewhat related in that I feel like we're here to fly planes and DO fun stuff rather than watch the magenta line.

What I've learned about VNAV/LNAV is that they must be pretty damned hard to program, because it seems NOBODY's happy with ANYONE's implementation. If it were as straightforward as so many seem to believe, I'm sure the developer's would've fixed it by now just for some peace and quiet! 😅

So, if they can pull off a good steam gauge implementation of a classic airliner, I say, more power to them! After all, Just Flight have made a pretty good living off that area of focus.

Thanks to you, I'll keep a closer eye on the progress of this addon - appreciate it!

Hello Guys, Is anyone using the TCA airbus throttle with the FSS 727-200? I am having problems setting up this quadrant with this plane.