12 hours ago, Wildblue said:

Have you seen the aircraft's continuing speed changes? Very peculiar if you ask me. You can see the flight data (speed and height) by clicking the small "graph" icon under Time.

On another forum an explanation was given for the rapid variations in speed during the flight detected on Flightradar24 and also occurred on other flights made by this ATR 72 with this explanation:

" Most ATRs of that type do not use ADSB therefore FR24 tracks using MLAT. That could explain the speed variations shown on the plot."

36 minutes ago, RobPol471 said:

ADSB therefore FR24 tracks using MLAT

Very clear, congrats!

It seemed very strange to me, "if" what was published by the Sao Paulo newspapers is true, where it is asserted that the pilots did not launch any Mayday nor did they respond to the air traffic controllers who detected the sudden and rapid descent of the plane.

I repeat that if these statements are true, in addition to the hypotheses of "experts" who in the media suppose that the initial cause was a strong formation of ice on the wings or a sudden malfunction of the engines that would have put the plane out of control, it will be necessary to clarify why the pilots in the approximately two minutes that passed from the occurrence of the problem until the crash did not send any message nor respond to the air traffic controllers.

An excellent analysis of the ATR-72 crash...

Noel

On 8/10/2024 at 3:02 PM, RobPol471 said:

It seemed very strange to me, "if" what was published by the Sao Paulo newspapers is true, where it is asserted that the pilots did not launch any Mayday nor did they respond to the air traffic controllers who detected the sudden and rapid descent of the plane.

I repeat that if these statements are true, in addition to the hypotheses of "experts" who in the media suppose that the initial cause was a strong formation of ice on the wings or a sudden malfunction of the engines that would have put the plane out of control, it will be necessary to clarify why the pilots in the approximately two minutes that passed from the occurrence of the problem until the crash did not send any message nor respond to the air traffic controllers.

Why should they try to communicate with ATC during a free-fall spin? Stabilizing the plane should be their first priority, regardless how long it takes. I am sure they tried exactly that until there very last second. 

The three indisputable rules of flying. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.

On 8/10/2024 at 8:02 AM, RobPol471 said:

It seemed very strange to me, "if" what was published by the Sao Paulo newspapers is true, where it is asserted that the pilots did not launch any Mayday nor did they respond to the air traffic controllers who detected the sudden and rapid descent of the plane.

I repeat that if these statements are true, in addition to the hypotheses of "experts" who in the media suppose that the initial cause was a strong formation of ice on the wings or a sudden malfunction of the engines that would have put the plane out of control, it will be necessary to clarify why the pilots in the approximately two minutes that passed from the occurrence of the problem until the crash did not send any message nor respond to the air traffic controllers.

Sometimes it’s better to sit on the sidelines and listen instead of speaking. No disrespect meant. But the fact is that if your plane is in a flat spin like this, the LAST thing you should be doing is talking to anyone. Just fly the plane. You’re number one priority is getting that plane into a position to where the wings are actually flying. 

Although we don't know the cause of the crash yet, I will say one thing about the ATR72: it is under-powered IMO.

I have the one from Carenado and these things can barely climb at 1,000ft/min after takeoff and less after that.  If you look at the Flightaware table shown in the video it can only climb at 400-600ft/min above 8,000ft.

More powerful engines might not have helped in this case, but it's always better to have more power than not enough.

Dave

39 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

Sometimes it’s better to sit on the sidelines and listen instead of speaking. No disrespect meant. But the fact is that if your plane is in a flat spin like this, the LAST thing you should be doing is talking to anyone. Just fly the plane. You’re number one priority is getting that plane into a position to where the wings are actually flying. 

According to what Brazilian online media such as Globo have stated, the pilots did not respond to the controllers since they communicated the authorization to descend from 17,000 feet of cruising when " the plane was in stabilized flight " and the controllers tried to call the pilots until the signal of the plane disappeared from the radar without receiving any response.

I want to clarify that my doubt about not responding to the controllers or launching the Mayday by the pilots could also mean, obviously it is a hypothesis, a physical inability of the pilots to manage the plane or an electrical/electronic failure on the plane that did not allow communications between the pilots and controllers but only listening to the CVR will clarify what really happened in the cockpit.

 

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The three indisputable rules of flying. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate

First - FLY THE AIRPLANE!

Noel

4 minutes ago, birdguy said:

First - FLY THE AIRPLANE!

Noel

That’s what Aviate means Noel. 😉

Yes, Ray, I know.  But it has to be emphasized.

Noel

This ATR 72 had another accident on March 11, 2024 and this is what was written on the website The Aviation Herald:

" Accident: Voepass AT72 at Salvador on Mar 11th 2024, hydraulic problems and tail strike on landing By Simon Hradecky, created Monday, Aug 12th 2024 07:26Z, last updated Monday, Aug 12th 2024 07:38Z

A Voepass Avions de Transport Regional ATR-72-212A, registration PS-VPB performing flight 2Z-2290 from Recife,PE to Salvador,BA (Brazil), was enroute when the crew received a low hydraulic quantity indication, the crew worked the related checklists and continued to destination. The aircraft landed on Salvador's runway 10 however the tail contacted the runway surface.

The aircraft was unable to continue service, remained on the ground in Salvador until Mar 28th 2024, then ferried to Voepass' maintenance facilities in Ribeirao Preto,SP (Brazil) and remained there until Jul 9th 2024.

Brazil's CENIPA reported without mentioning the tail number of the aircraft involved: "The aircraft took off from Guararapes Airport - Gilberto Freyre (SBRF), Recife, PE, bound for Deputado Luis Eduardo Magalhães Airport (SBSV), Salvador, BA, in order to perform regular public air transportation. During the cruise phase, the aircraft displayed a low hydraulic oil level message. The procedures provided for in the manual were performed and the flight continued to the destination aerodrome. During landing, the aircraft made abnormal contact with the runway. After taxiing, the aircraft was handed over to the maintenance team." and categorized the damage as minor, there was no investigation.

Brazilian Media claim that according to maintenance documentation by the airline the aircraft had received substantial structural damage (editorial note: supported by the ground time of the aircraft returning to service only 120 days after the tail strike in Salvador).

According to ADS-B data the aircraft ferried from Salvador to Ribeirao Preto on Mar 28th 2024, the first flight after the occurrence, then remained on the ground in Ribeirao Preto until Jun 23rd 2024, when a flight from Ribeirao Preto to Ribeirao Preto, likely a test flight, was conducted, the aircraft subsequently returned to service on Jul 9th 2024. Brazilian Media claim, that during that flight 2Z-2204 from Ribeirao Preto to Sao Paulo Guarulhos cabin pressure was lost (CENIPA does not list such an occurrence), the aircraft returned to Ribereirao Preto the same day without passengers. The aircraft returned to service again on Jul 13th 2024 and has been flying since until the crash on Aug 9th 2024, see Crash: Voepass AT72 at Sao Paulo on Aug 9th 2024, spun out of control and lost height.

According to Brazilian Media a good number of passengers flying on that aircraft, including the day before the crash, complained about the air conditioning system not working with incredible heat on board of the aircraft. "
 

 

CENIPA has published a preliminary report on the accident with the sequence of events based on the information collected at the initial field investigation, as well as recordings from the Flight Data Recorder (FDR) and Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR).

 

https://dedalo.sti.fab.mil.br/en/85259