I'm trying to give a go to the latest beta update of X-Plane 12.1, and tried to find some tutorial showing, for instance, how to fill an IFR flightplan based on a route generated in Simbrief, including the SID and STAR and transitions to approach. 

Couldn't find one so far 😕

If I cut & paste the route from the Simbrief OFP, it doesn't work and raises a lot of errors / inconsistent waypoints... How do I declare a given departure / arrival ?

Any hints, and if possible links, really appreciated !!!

What about littlenavmap ?

4 minutes ago, Humpty said:

What about littlenavmap ?

Hey Zul, thx, but I was actually asking about the ATC, not the flight planning.

It appears XP12's default ATC is now aware of procedures like SID / STAR / APP, so, I would like to find a good tutorial where, for instance, I could learn how to fill the flight plan in XP12's default ATC GUI when there are SIDs and / or STARs / APPROACHES ?

Until now we had to delete the whole SID / STAR segments, but since they say they now support it there should be some way to correctly fill that in the flightplan window... 

Edited December 8, 20241 yr by jcomm

But you did mention that copy / pasting the simbrief plan causes errors ?

"X-Plane 12/Instructions/X-Plane_ATC_System_Manual.pdf"

☝️

Thx! - will check that one and see if it's not outdated given the latest additions to the ATC.

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

Thx! - will check that one and see if it's not outdated given the latest additions to the ATC.

It is getting an update due to some changes

25 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

It is getting an update due to some changes

Ah! Ok Thx!  Will wait then 👍

Or you could just sit down and digest the contents of any AIP for any country - they all spell out in detail how ATC is organised,  its areas of coverage, services provided, traffic rules, standard phraseologies etc etc. Then work out who is ICAO compliant and who is different. They are usually about 400 pages of complex counter linked rules and procedures. So any ATC in the sim is but a crude approximation at best!

My two bits worth I do not bother with the sim ATC - it usually gets it wrong at some point, understandably, and is PIA - so I guess it just like the real thing - we used to call them the talking traffic lights!

Edited December 8, 20241 yr by coastaldriver

6 minutes ago, coastaldriver said:

Or you could just sit down and digest the contents of any AIP for any country - they all spell out in detail how ATC is organised,  its areas of coverage, services provided, traffic rules, standard phraseologies etc etc. Then work out who is ICAO compliant and who is different. They are usually about 400 pages of complex counter linked rules and procedures. So any ATC in the sim is but a crude approximation at best!

I think you mean Doc 9432

https://www.ealts.com/documents/ICAO Doc 9432 Manual of Radiotelephony (4th ed. 2007).pdf

Other one is the FAA stuff

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc_html/

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/NAT IGA 2004.pdf

Which they (ICAO and the UK) mostly copied from

That's the core documentation of AutoATC and its ground school is based off of anyway. What I've seen so far of the new XP12 ATC seems to match them reasonably well. Anything else always welcome.

I applaud anybody trying to get some sort of reasonable ATC system working in the sim for those who want that level of detail I guess. The European American or High Density traffic areas experience may be very different to more out of the way places where ATC services are very basic indeed. In high density areas the biggest problem I have is which STAR which SID which runway? Some airports can have multiple STARs and SIDs dependant on weather, noise limits etc, so in the RW you went with the flow that is you could expect to have to change it at short notice, fortunately not too difficult but in these highly automated FMS systems it is a right royal pain given the sim FMS's etc are a bit retarded and inflexible in doing those sort of changes on the fly.  The other thing is you never got your SID or STAR until you got a clearance or onward routing so you always drove it manually (via HDG etc) and off a paper chart until you could resume pilot navigation or final clearance. Know how to do it but don't enjoy it at all!

4 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

I applaud anybody trying to get some sort of reasonable ATC system working in the sim for those who want that level of detail I guess.

AutoATC's priority is a bit different than that. Less about an "ATC working for the sim", and more about creating an entire environment that can be used to learn pilot communications "for realsies", they are two quite different problem sets. "ATC for the sim" is fine with no more than a pointy clicky UI, "for realsies" the only UI is the frequency and transmit button, and airport airspaces are very busy, pointy clicky is just a nice to have.

The only "real" option is still pilotedge afaik, and they are FAA only. Other options (like VATSIM/IVAO) are far more focused on giving controllers pilots, less about what a pilot needs for a good simulated flight.

4 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

biggest problem I have is which STAR which SID which runway? Some airports can have multiple STARs and SIDs dependant on weather, noise limits etc, so in the RW you went with the flow that is you could expect to have to change it at short notice, fortunately not too difficult but in these highly automated FMS systems it is a right royal pain given the sim FMS's etc are a bit retarded and inflexible in doing those sort of changes on the fly.

This is a really good example of what I mean about the difference between an ATC working in the sim, vs one for real life. The biggest problem I've seen for pilots, especially those whose home ATC is generally non english, is more... how can I put this... fundamental...

My biggest problem is that heli pilot demonstrates everything needed for a 100% pass in the ICAO radio comms component, which is a multiple choice test that amounts to "be on the right frequency" and "read back stuff" and an oral test that you know some words. He did all of that perfectly....

no ATC communications is English anyway - that isn't English..

As for your specific question, IFR STARs at least should work something like this:

XP12s ATC assumes you know it as much as AutoATCs (once IFR comms hits V1) - one of the "not a bugs" we recently worked through for XP12s ATC, but it's also the kind of material that will be in its groundschool eventually.

4 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

Know how to do it but don't enjoy it at all!

I really, really enjoy the feeling of actually being the "Pilot in Command", getting to that point has been a major (and expensive) chore to put it very mildly.

Edited December 9, 20241 yr by mSparks

On 12/8/2024 at 10:33 AM, jcomm said:

Hey Zul, thx, but I was actually asking about the ATC, not the flight planning.

It appears XP12's default ATC is now aware of procedures like SID / STAR / APP, so, I would like to find a good tutorial where, for instance, I could learn how to fill the flight plan in XP12's default ATC GUI when there are SIDs and / or STARs / APPROACHES ?

Until now we had to delete the whole SID / STAR segments, but since they say they now support it there should be some way to correctly fill that in the flightplan window... 

The Navigraph charts app (if you have it, maybe other solutions too) have a top window box where you can copy the flight plan entered and paste it directly into the XP12 ATC fill window, then press file flight plan and you are good to go. Maybe a DCT error may show up but if you clear that error from the ATC fill window, then the IFR flight plan will be accepted.

@alexcolka, thank you, I will give it a try, but do you mean all DCT directives should be suppressed from the flightplan text when imported to the XP12 ATC menu?

Edited December 9, 20241 yr by jcomm

23 hours ago, jcomm said:

Ah! Ok Thx!  Will wait then 👍

The basics still apply.

And nothing is stopping you from simply playing around. It's not that Austin locks your PC if ATC terminates services on you for one too many mistakes.