P3D V7 in 2025 or 2026. Why?

[bofhlusr]

Assuming everything is equal in another sim ie. graphics, add-ons, gizmos and other capabilities. EVERYTHING.

Why would a non-professional simmer, gamer or a developer not involved with the military.... buy or select a sim ... that isn't available in Steam or a relatively cheap console and whose license is for training only?
 

Edited January 9 by bofhlusr

[DavidP]

Why worry about it? It's their choice.

[bofhlusr]

Yes. You are correct. They absolutely have the right to choose. No worries here. But just curious.

[CO2Neutral]

Simple, we’re more serious about flight simulation and MSFS 2024 isn’t cutting it.

EDIT: what is a “professional simmer”?

Edited January 9 by CO2Neutral

[bofhlusr]

5 minutes ago, CO2Neutral said:

Simple, we’re more serious about flight simulation and MSFS 2024 isn’t cutting it.

EDIT: what is a “professional simmer”?

For example, an airline pilot.

[sloppysmusic]

10 hours ago, bofhlusr said:

Why would a non-professional simmer, gamer or a developer not involved with the military.... buy or select a sim ... that isn't available in Steam or a relatively cheap console and whose license is for training only?

You pretty much listed all the reasons why I WOULD buy it. It's fair game to train even if there's no job at the end of it.

Simulation is not what it used to be these days.

[CO2Neutral]

13 hours ago, bofhlusr said:

airline pilot.

Being an “airline pilot” is their profession not “being a simmer”.  But given the number of GA and commercial incidents/deaths recently due to pilot error, perhaps more real world pilots should be using simulators rather than snubbing them … surprised the FAA has not jumped on this for GA pilots (raises some doubts as to the real purpose of FAA … money first, safety whatever).

I don’t know if you follow real world pilots on YouTube but they can provide a good insight into “simulator” use, for example Kelsey Hughes (74 Gear) landed a 747 at St. Barts … sorta taking the mickey out of MSFS.  Mentour Pilot has used his team of video editors to produce content for his incident narratives … the editors have used P3D, MSFS, XP to accompany as “visuals” only.  None of them have mentioned using non-commercial flight simulators as a “theme” to their proficiency.

Some GA/commercial pilots you might want to follow to get insight into their knowledge/careers:

• Mentour Pilot (Peter Hornfeldt)
• 74Gear (Kelsey Hughes)
• Blancolirio (Juan Browne)
• Steveo1Kinevo (Steve Nader)
• DutchPilotGirl (Michelle Glooris)
• Swayne Martin
• Captain Joe
• Pilot Blog (Denys Davydov)
• and more … 

 

Edited January 9 by CO2Neutral

[CAP1234]

On 1/9/2025 at 5:24 PM, CO2Neutral said:

perhaps more real world pilots should be using simulators

I agree to above post - More and more professional pilots (Be it airline or other types) are now embracing the world of flight sim. Not only this hobby is enjoyable but at the same time allows you retain your knowledge/skills without having to spend 100s of dollars on full size sims. Many addons available today replicate almost everything that real plane can do with the exception of external factors (which can't be replicated in sim), So when it comes to annual sim check - one can practise flows/procedures or even simulate any emergency procedures (provided non normal is supported on that addon). The only thing missing is multicrew part - but even that is evolving. Some addons now allow you share flight with other person so you can fly as a two crew members just as you would IRL. 

[dave2013]

I tried MSFS for a month in 2021 and just wasn't sold on it.  I loved the satellite scenery, but everything else was just a mess.  I'm sure things have gotten better, and I don't know what MSFS 2024 is like.

I'm not interested in debating which simulator is "better".  All I'll say is that, so far, the military still uses P3D for their training and not MSFS.  There's a reason for that.

Dave

[ATRguy]

On 1/8/2025 at 9:15 PM, bofhlusr said:

For example, an airline pilot.

I'm an airline pilot, I haven't touched P3D in years.  It offers no advantage to the current crop of sims, IMO.

[ATRguy]

3 hours ago, CAP1234 said:

I agree to above post - More and more professional pilots (Be it airline or other types) are now embracing the world of flight sim. Not only this hobby is enjoyable but at the same time allows you retain your knowledge/skills without having to spend 100s of dollars on full size sims. Many addons available today replicate almost everything that real plane can do with the exception of external factors (which can't be replicated in sim), So when it comes to annual sim check - one can practise flows/procedures or even simulate any emergency procedures (provided non normal is supported on that addon). The only thing missing is multicrew part - but even that is evolving. Some addons now allow you share flight with other person so you can fly as a two crew members just as you would IRL. 

Just to be clear, airline pilots don't spend ANY money on training.  The companies do.  I'm expected to show up prepared for sim every six months, and I don't "get ready" using any desktop sim.  I fly them for fun, doing things I'll never do in my career, like the Island Hopper around the Pacific.  

I go to sim to do emergencies, and my flows don't need practice because I do them every day at work.

[dbw1]

Retired mainly blue collar pilot 70% of the my time, 40 years fixed and rotary wing, hung up the headset in 2016. My thoughts. Simmer since the later 1980s.

I did a lot of wild fire suppression and one aircraft I flew, CL215,  did not have a simulator (the new version of the 215 -  the CL415 does have one) so it was get in the aircraft and learn in the actual aircraft initially then do a PPC/IFR renewal every spring. So we'd show up in late March, get a few hours in both seats then be expected to go out and pass the ride. i was into flight sims so I generally had little problem with the IFR* part but other guys well it could be a challenge. A couple eventually talked to me about the simming, got into it and their spring rides were easier. Keep in mind this was after a 6 month spell (winter) off.

*in the winter off season i used to teach IFR for a local flight school a couple days a week in their primitive by todays standards the Elite simulator and when you have to teach something you really then learn it. I did the teaching because I like doing it plus it got me off the couch in the winter and topped up the toy fund.

Eventually the my fire suppression employer built based on an earlier version of XPlane, simulators for the CL215 and the Cessna310. It had a pretty good cockpit build for both. Displays was wrap around 5 50" plasma tv screens. Worked well and for people coming back after a winter off spending 5-10 hours in these sims got them up to speed before getting in the airplane. These sims were not govt approved and only used for in house training. All requirements for the govt were done in the aircraft. This was a govt employer and they had the budget for this kind of training device. I was one of the instructors on the sims. The sims could do basic fire suppression runs and coordination with the C310 as well. The guy who built these sims was a genius imho.

Not everyone works for the airlines and using sims such as XP, P3d etc can be quite beneficial especially when a level C/D is not available. I enjoyed my years training in Level C/D sims when available.

 

[bofhlusr]

10 hours ago, dave2013 said:

I'm not interested in debating which simulator is "better".  All I'll say is that, so far, the military still uses P3D for their training and not MSFS.  There's a reason for that.

Dave

@dave2013, two non-technical explanation: licensing and tech support.

[UrgentSiesta]

13 hours ago, dave2013 said:

 I'll say is that, so far, the military still uses P3D for their training and not MSFS.  There's a reason for that.

Yes, it's called Multi-Domain, Multi-User, geographic independence, a helluva lot of sunk costs/well established training programs, and let us not forget about the training/ TTPs being highly classified. Lockheed Martin can make that happen with P3D running on private, secure networks. MSFS can't (well, they COULD, just like they already do with the massive, Gov-Only M365...).

The reasons have NOTHING to do with the consumer desktop simmer experience.

 

Edited January 14 by UrgentSiesta

[G-RFRY]

I don`t know if you know this but real pilots used P3D professional licence sim setup to keep their licence currant during Covid. as it`s licenced by the FAA,

They must log a certain number of hours over a given period or take simulator training under an instructor.

LM did attend a show some years ago and real pilots attended the lecture by P3D Devs.

Weather & Earth Science | Lockheed Martin

Training, Logistics & Sustainment | Lockheed Martin

Edited January 14 by G-RFRY