29 minutes ago, brinx said:

Flight simulators are videos games.

Said no ATP ever.

2 minutes ago, brinx said:

Yes. Facts like simulation games are used professionally for training and at home for entertainment by many.

Sorry but this sentence doesn’t even make sense. There are no « games » used to train pilots in a professional settings. It looks like you are mixing up things here…

3 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Said no ATP ever.

 

Well, that is why we have threads like this to put an end to misinformation and educate. 

Just now, brinx said:

 

Well, that is why we have threads like this to put an end to misinformation and educate. 

 Educating ATP’s because they weren’t aware that they were playing a video-game and thought that they had a checkride in a flight-simulator as part of their training? It’s fantastic that you could educate them. Now they have learned something. Many thanks 🙏

5 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

 Educating ATP’s because they weren’t aware that they were playing a video-game and thought that they had a checkride in a flight-simulator as part of their training? It’s fantastic that you could educate them. Now they have learned something. Many thanks

What kind of response is "Said no ATP ever"?  It just means there is nothing else to add to the discussion.  

If I see misinformation, I will point it out. There are indeed users on here who do not know that flight simulators are simulation games. 

22 minutes ago, brinx said:

If I see misinformation, I will point it out.

That's quite noble of you.  I hope you do it in ALL forums, with statements to back up your opinions.  

Edited February 12, 20251 yr by GoranM

30 minutes ago, brinx said:

What kind of response is "Said no ATP ever"?

I'm confused why you're confused. What part of Franz's answer is so twirled up in your mind that it doesn't make sense. It's a data point that you continually refuse to address. ATP's simply don't walk out of a level-D session thinking or saying "golly what a fun game machine that is". Nor will any of us see any of the flight simulator manufacturers associating any of their products as 'games'. Where are you drawing that conclusion from? A sociologist's abstract from '89? Oh do tell us more! More wiki links! 🙂

Video games are but a subset of the family of software known as simulators.

54 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

ATP's simply don't walk out of a level-D session thinking or saying "golly what a fun game machine that is".

I provided pages of explanation that you glossed over.  In a professional environment, the terminology changes. You are training on the simulator. No one says I was playing a game. It does not change the fact that the software is a category of game. To be more specific, it is a simulation game.

You can make a game that is not a flight simulator, but you can't make a flight simulator that is not a game. You can't make a flight simulator without knowing how to make a game. IMPOSSIBLE.  Why?  Flight simulation is a category of game, a simulation game. You can use it for professional training. You can use it for entertainment.

What sets a flight simulator apart from a regular game is that it tries to replicate the real-world via physics and other things.

Austin Meyer, the creator of Xplane, literally tells you in the video that a flight simulator is a game.  I do not understand what is so hard to grasp. You don't have to believe me but why wouldn't you believe the man that created a flight simulator?

 

Edited February 12, 20251 yr by brinx

9 minutes ago, brinx said:

No one says I was playing a game

Agreed. They don't. And they never will. But you personally do desperately call it a game here:

9 minutes ago, brinx said:

it is a simulation game

Or wait...maybe that word combination is actually stating that a video game is a subset of simulation. You can call it a game if you want to. You and Austin both. No doubt you treat it like one 100% of the time. What Austin was really saying in that video is that he never has time for video games. Spending too much time developing IRL aircraft with XP.

 

11 minutes ago, brinx said:

pages

No sweetie. You provided a community-modifiable wiki link and the rotting first page of a sociologist's paper from 30 yrs ago referencing works that nearly pre-date the PC. What's amusing about that 1st page is that they go into detail about how their field of study was shrinking and dying.

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

Agreed. They don't. And they never will. But you personally do desperately call it a game here:

At least we agree on something. There is no need for them to call it a game. That is not the terminology used in this professional setting. The software remains a simulation game.

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

What Austin was really saying in that video is that he never has time for video games. Spending too much time developing IRL aircraft with XP.

You don't need to interpret what Austin means. He said what he thought in the video. He clearly said, and I quote, "There's really no concept to me of the difference between a game and a flight simulator. To me, they are both the same thing" - Austin.  Really, what are you arguing at this point? 

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

No sweetie. You provided a community-modifiable wiki link and the rotting first page of a sociologist's paper from 30 yrs ago referencing works that nearly pre-date the PC. What's amusing about that 1st page is that they go into detail about how their field of study was shrinking and dying.

Simulation games are used for training. The source is a scientific journal. Scientific Journals are trusted sources. They are peer-reviewed by experts in the field before being published and are used in research and academia. It does not matter if it is 1989, 2009, or 2029. A simulation game is a simulation game. The physics and graphics improved, but they remain simulation games. 

You can't make a flight simulator without knowing how to make a game. IMPOSSIBLE.  Why?  Flight simulation is a category of game, a simulation game. I don't know what your argument is anymore.

Edited February 12, 20251 yr by brinx

@brinx

Is this a game?

24 minutes ago, brinx said:

You can't make a flight simulator without knowing how to make a game.

And yet Austin's life and career proves your statement wrong. Over and over again.

 

26 minutes ago, brinx said:

To me, they are both the same thing

To him. His opinion, sure thing. I've already said I don't give a hoot what he thinks on this particular topic.

 

30 minutes ago, brinx said:

I don't know

Yes, we know.

Also, @brinx I noticed you haven't replied in this thread.  Even in Len's (lwt) post, where he claims people calling MSFS just a game, are "downplaying" its credibility. 

You said you would correct any misinformation.  I certainly hope you're a man of your word.

Edited February 12, 20251 yr by GoranM

5 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Is this a game?

@GoranM I have said many times in this thread that no one in these settings calls it a game. The terminology used in this context is different. It does not matter if it is P3D, Xplane, or FSX, you still wouldn't refer to it as such.  But just because you use the software on a multi-million-dollar hardware does not change what it is.

8 minutes ago, brinx said:

no one in these settings calls it a game

You do. Repeatedly. "Flight simulators are a video game." Again and again and again.